1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Will Dunhill bankrupt?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by ernest, Jan 29, 2005.

  1. ernest

    ernest Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    They even do not manage to sell enough in their outlet shop in Paris. It may close soon.

    When you know that you can often find cheaper cufflinks (from Dunhill) in a departement store during sales, you understand why the outlet shop is useless.

    They are dying. I hope they will decrease their prices.
     
  2. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,452
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    the New York store seems to do ok. I wonder about Loro Piana. Even their outlets are very very expensive still. I found this small pillow I liked once at the outlet - cashmere and suede and on sale it was still $600 or something. They must be joking. They have an extremely large store in Short Hills, NJ, in the mall. I have never, I mean never seen someone inside the store aside from a salesperson leaning against a table, looking bored. Some designers should just leave their distribution to the department stores and forget about opening their own boutiques. (In my opinion, of course.) Personally, I think LP is one of them.
     
  3. ernest

    ernest Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    Loro piana as not so much stores. I know just a small one in Paris. Dunhill have closes 2 shops in Paris, one corner in a department store and at least 2 shops in London.
     
  4. Alias

    Alias Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,536
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Loro Piana's making a killing here in Asia. Everyone here just has to get the name brands.
     
  5. STYLESTUDENT

    STYLESTUDENT Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,135
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2004
    Location:
    SE Michigan (frequent NYC visitor)
    I can understand why they'd have customers for leather goods, luggage, and tobacco pipes and lighters (even though that market is on the skids). As an ex-customer, I found the  clothes over-priced (my last MTM shirts from Dunhill ran over $300 and a Zegna 100s blazer there over $1,200). When Dunhill was next to Sulka on Park Avenue, I'd run into both stores and thought that the Sulka goods were so much better made. Well, all the U.S. Dunhill stores are now closed except New York-maybe the old English name and the Italian clothes didn't create a compelling identity?
    Edit: If I remember, Alfred Dunhill took over the highly regard Dunhill Tailors firm on 57th St. just east of 5th Avenue (the name was a coincidence), moved out of there to Rockefeller Center, then moved to 57th and Park, and now on to 5th Avenue. Somehow Sulka too in its last days kept moving around and spending money on tenant improvements. I wonder if the Richemont conglomerate really has a plan?
     
  6. ernest

    ernest Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    Are leather good really good?
     
  7. STYLESTUDENT

    STYLESTUDENT Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,135
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2004
    Location:
    SE Michigan (frequent NYC visitor)
    The Dunhill wallet and credit card case I've owned were apparently licensed and were made in Italy. The leather is durable, there's a nice silk lining, and it doesn't fall apart. Not cheap but not yet in the Asprey or Hermes stratosphere. Dunhill's website says that it's making leather goods in England now which may increase the pricing further, at least here with the weak dollar.
     
  8. LabelKing

    LabelKing Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    25,745
    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Location:
    Constantinople
    I see many older people with Loro Piana jackets. I know that because their jackets are thrown over their chairs or over their arms.
     
  9. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,441
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Location:
    London, UK
    Dunhill is owned by the Richemont group http://www.richemont.com/ and what happens to the label will ultimately be decided in their boardrooms. I think the brand has been rather confused in recent years (twenty or so) and the decision to neglect the "Englishness" and take it down a bland, internationalist route has not been a clever one. That ultimately killed Sulka (another Richemont company), there was nothing Anglo-American about Sulka anymore in the last years. Both Sulka and Dunhill had that same cheerful and bright, but ultimately bland and prissy merchandise, aimed at a Middle-Eastern clientele. (Motto: "If you've got it, flaunt it".) Dunhill can't have been profitable in the last years and has been pulled hither and thither to improve figures: from expansion to contraction and vice versa. When Richemont closed down the Sulka store on Old Bond Street (about 3 years ago) it was turned into an additional Dunhill store, only to be closed again some two years later. Â Heaven knows, how much money they have lost with this store. Ultimately all the global expansion aims of various retailers have been disastrous for the retail trade as every store will the same and be geared stylistically to the lowest common denominator. Equally no individual person takes charge of things. I remember a few years ago at the Dunhill, New Bond Street store a whole rail of new Italian-made overcoats. The whole batch the sleeve lining either cut to short or wrongly attached, resulting in all the sleeves puckering. Nobody had noticed it when the merchandise arrived and when it was put out onto the floor. I pointed it out to the salesman, but two days later when (out of curiosity) I returned to the store, the merchandise was still displayed and all the sleeves were still puckering proudly. These things cannot happen in a stand-alone store with the owner/proprietor in charge.
     
  10. Horace

    Horace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,447
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Beng: what did the salesman say when you pointed it out? Was he indifferent or what? Manager probably thought no one would notice, eh?
    H.
     
  11. arenn1

    arenn1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    76
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    I was told by people at Dunhill that the New York store - the only one they kept open when they closed their US retail chain - was a huge money loser. Sinking huge amounts of cash into money losing, prestige real estate can't be a good way to put profits on the bottom line.

    On the plus side, Dunhill is now sold through department stores and other specialty stores, which makes the brand easier to locate. On the minus side, it loses some of the exclusivity. I own a Dunhill watch which I like because, though it is nothing special horologically, I know a million other people don't own one just like it.
     
  12. Mike C.

    Mike C. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,528
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Location:
    New York City
    The Loro Piana retail stores could very well loose money on average, I imagine they break even. However, they represent a very small percentage of the LP company. They make tons of money in wholesale for fabric; more then enough to subsidize the retail operations.

    BTW, these are generalizations, I don't have exact figures or official estimates to base this on. This is based on factual knowledge of how fashion companies are run.
     
  13. whnay.

    whnay. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,420
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I'd be a sad day if Dunhill went under. I'm with arenn, I love the brand and its distinctiveness. I was incredibly happy to know recently that the Atlanta Saks began carrying the brand.
     
  14. auto90403

    auto90403 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    464
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Monica, California/McLean, Virginia
    the loro piana shop on oak street in chicago couldn't have made them any money. clothes were amazing but not more amazing then was available from other makers using LP fabrics.

    although they had a jacket called "horsey" (italians really need some native english speakers to focus-group proposed names) that i would sell my grandmother to the republicans to be able to afford. they told it was their biggest selling item in the shop. at about $1200 each.

    meaning they weren't selling a lot of $600 pants.

    store had to be a huge loss leader.
     
  15. gregory

    gregory Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    552
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Huge fan of dunhill here as well. One of the things I have in common with my father. I was sad when their woodbury outlet closed. Dunhill really manages a very distinctive look -- sort of like for the young, wealthy, globe-trotting English-educated elite. Very very classy.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by