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Why do people wear a shirt and tie with no jacket?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by truthhurts, Nov 8, 2004.

  1. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    To me, the only audience that counts at work is my clientele and myself. For being "in public", I could care less about what some hick from Tennessee (or subsitute some other backcountry locale) thinks of me walking around with no jacket on down Madison Ave. For the vast majority of people walking around NYC, a dale ernhardt jr. hat consitutes black tie. I need to look good in front of my clients, simple as that. That means Im not all sweaty, my jacket isnt wrinkle from wearing it all day, etc.

    Are you saying you really care what the people around you might think if you arent wearing a jacket? Seems a bit odd to worry about such things.
     
  2. JLA

    JLA Active Member

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    I totally disagree with truthhurts. I try to dress as polished as possible but with some consideration for comfort. If it's 90 degrees and I'm sweating to death, that looks alot worse than no jacket. I wear shirts and ties almost everday and I like the look, so shoot me.
     
  3. Giona Granata

    Giona Granata Well-Known Member

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    That's a proof that it is not the right fabric. I can drive a couple of hour with my jacket on, and it doesn't get wrinkled.
     
  4. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    Umm, certain fabrics wrinkle. You can own the top of the line linen, or similar fabric, pay a fortune for it, and it will wrinkle. Some fabrics are prone to wrinkle, some arent. The price you pay for said fabric is almost irrelevant.
     
  5. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    Are we talking about people who take off their jacket in their own office?  I'm a serious fashion fuddy duddy, but even I do that.  And so do 99% of the men I've ever worked with or near.

    Or are we talking about guys who leave the house in the morning in shirt and tie without a jacket? That is indeed odd. Though I admit that I used to do this, in college, when I had a part time job that required a tie.  I only had one suit and one blazer, both flannel, and it was hot where I lived.  Plus, I was a kid at the bottom of the org chart, and no one cared.  I would never do it today, however.
     
  6. Giona Granata

    Giona Granata Well-Known Member

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    Yes, certain fabrics wrinkle. Yes price is irrilevant. Or, better, usually the more you pay, the more it wrinkles. Super8000 "tasmanian" with cashmere would usually wrinkle after 5 minutes dressing. Of course linen will wrinkle, but it wrinkles less a heavier weight linen. Mohair will hardly wrinkle, and it can be a magnificent fabric.
     
  7. arvi

    arvi Well-Known Member

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    i think there's almost a casual elegance to a creased linen suit..the rest of the outfit(shoes, shirt, tie) will tell the diffence between a really welldressed man or some slob in a crumpled suit [​IMG]
     
  8. ernest

    ernest Well-Known Member

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    To save up on their employee's convas jackets.

    I leave my jacket to protect it when I am at a desk or simply because it is hot in the room.
     
  9. ernest

    ernest Well-Known Member

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    Tie clips make people look like old old fashioned state servant waiting for retirement.

    Forget this.
     
  10. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    Ernest, no offense, but you are an idiot.
     
  11. ernest

    ernest Well-Known Member

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    I put off my jacket, may be I should not because =

    I suppose you only wear brown suits in the "country" = correct

    Wear black shoes after 6 pm = correct but for suit, black shoes = always

    Never let the fairer sex see your braces = I show because I leave my jacket.

    Leaving my jacket make me break 2 rules....
     
  12. ernest

    ernest Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.

    Why?
     
  13. JLibourel

    JLibourel Well-Known Member

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    As I remarked over on the "pet peeves" thread, I detest the look of a man in shirt and tie with no jacket--a very half-a$$ed way to dress up. (Worse yet is the sartorial atrocity of the man with or without jacket who unbuttons his collar button and yanks down his tie.) I will mention that if I elect to wear coat and tie, I do not remove the coat unless I plan to undress. This goes for my car or my office, as well. If a man is in the privacy of his office and removes his jacket, that seems innocuous. After all, we are all starked naked in our bedrooms and bathrooms daily, but we're sure not going to appear in public that way. This whole thread seems to forget that we live in an air-conditioned world, and very few of us are going to have make long treks on foot in business attire, whatever the weather. Wrinkling? Never a problem for me that a day or two of hanging wouldn't cure--and almost all my suits and sport coats are moderately priced department store RTW. As I mentioned over on the "pet peeves" thread, shirt and tie without a coat just screams "low-grade retail clerk" to me. If some dress code imposed that on me, I would prefer a bow tie, just so I wouldn't have the damn tie flopping around. Some may consider bow ties "dorky" or eccentric, but I consider tie clips worse in that regard.
     
  14. ernest

    ernest Well-Known Member

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    False because =

    1) many places in France have no air conditioned

    2) you have ALWAYS some people who want to turn off the AC as it makes them ill or some people who open windows which make the AC stop

    3) AC doesn't often work properly so is not able to cool off properly when it is 35° C ouside.

    Anyway, the main reason is to avoid using very quickly the sleeve of my jacket when I spend all the day moving my mouse.

    I will not get used my 1 200 euros suits in 2 mounths in order to keep my jacket with people who don't care about it and who would even find odd that I keep my jacket.
     
  15. JLibourel

    JLibourel Well-Known Member

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    Ernest, mon vieux, even though I may bear a French name, I am glad to be a citizen of the United States where things work as they should. In fact, my biggest beef with air conditioning is that it frequently makes my office too cold in hot weather--all the more reason to keep my jacket on. Although much of my work is done with a computer--I'm a magazine editor--I can't recollecting inflicting excessive wear on my sleeve cuff by operating a mouse.
     
  16. Horace

    Horace Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. The right fabric and whatnot.

    What I do though, and you all perhaps will take note, is wear a jacket and tie, without a shirt. I find this to be an acceptable alternative. Especially when wearing a bow-tie. Sometimes I make a concession and wear detachable cuffs. But never a dickie.
     
  17. WJTW

    WJTW Well-Known Member

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    Here in Singapore, long-sleeved business shirts with a tie is considered the standard business attire and is already considered 'formal' enough for events like wedding dinners. It is usually the more well-paid individuals here who choose to wear suits, otherwise, it is completely optional, and not to mention suits are expensive.
    Temperatures here are a constant 30 (plus-minus 2) degree celsius, so, wearing the jacket around in the open isn't wise. But even in the office, with jackets and all, a person wearing a suit is seldom seen, unless he is a high level employee, works for a company selling suits, or is a foreigner who is more used to wearing a jacket.

    So, a person wearing a suit here is rare, which is why I enjoy playing 'spot the suit wearing man'. The further away from the business district, the funner it gets. I did come across someone wearing a suit in my neighbourhood... for the first time here.

    Tuxedoes is even rarer still, and probably owned by people attending formal functions all the time. Otherwise, it is usually rented, because our formal functions don't usually have strict dress codes. Of course, 5 or 6 star hotels is another story.

    White-tie? What white-tie? I've seen no such animal, although I think the abovementioned hotels would have employees wearing it.

    WJTW
     
  18. MilanoStyle

    MilanoStyle Well-Known Member

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    This is ridiculous,

    Styling is one thing, but practicality/comfort are far more important than being stylish at work. If you are at an office where you need wear suits, I think it's perfectly fine to take jacket off.

    If I am doing computer work or doing some paper work while sitting, I cannot wear suit jacket. It would create such discomfort, hence, will effect my work performance.

    However, if you are going to outside of your work area where clients and other executives may be seen, then you should wear jacket.

    I also like idea wearing brown shoes during the day black shoes at night.
     
  19. truthhurts

    truthhurts Well-Known Member

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    To make my point clear - I'm not talking about what people do in private. They can wear a santa suit for all it matters. If you are in public you never know who you will meet. It seems like a bad strategy to get about in an ugly outfit.
     
  20. GreyFlannelMan

    GreyFlannelMan Well-Known Member

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    I once thought that a shirt and tie (no jacket) ensemble was incomplete.  Until I had clients in Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok.  Not only is it the standard mode of dress, as WJTW and a couple of others point out, but it really is the most practical.  When I first arrived in Singapore, I thought I would maintain my normal way of dressing, i.e., putting on my suit coat when leaving a building.  It took one day of absolutely soaking through my my shirt (and then freezing when going back indoors.) to convince me that my NY ways were folly.  

    So while the look may take some getting used to for some, I dare say that most if not all of the people showing disdain for this concept would quickly adapt and learn to like it if forced to live in a truly tropical locale (no, Florida doesn't count).
     

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