Why do people hate on jeans like rock & republics and sfam?

[datasupa]

Originally Posted by jet

Allow me to paraphrase, it means "who the **** are you" implying the noob knows nothing of what he speaks as compared to two people who know more about denim than anyone else on the forum. Was I close?

maybe close, but also very far.

post count and join date do not a noob make, necessarily. similarly, having thousands of posts doesn't make you knowledgeable. apparently.


also, there's no point arguing with blackplatano, reasoning is not his forte.

 

[drizzt3117]

Originally Posted by Clench Million

Personally, I truly find them aesthetically displeasing. True Religions are honestly the ugliest brand of jeans I've ever seen, just on an aesthetic level (and barring **** like baggy hip hop jeans where someone has sewn every NBA team logo on).

On men I'd probably agree with this. However, their target market is female and I think they do a good job there.

Secondly, their quality simply is not on par with their price. If Rock and Republic and 7FAM sold for 60 bucks I wouldn't hate on them, but the idea that someone is going to pay 300 bucks to buy a medicore pair of jeans just seems silly to me. I've always felt this way. It is like buying some crappy t-shirt for 50 bucks because it has a little Abercrombie and Fitch logo when you could buy a shirt that felt and fit just as good for one fifth of that price.

I disagree and A&F is a bad example to use. IMO they have some of the best price/quality of any company out there especially in their basics. Armani Exchange, Banana Republic, Club Monaco, etc... would be good examples of poor quality relative to price.

 

[Clench Million]

That is what goes on in SF. People dislike the image of TR/7/RR and then try to rationalize their dislike by critizing real qualities (like fit), but those real qualities aren't the reason, bad association is, so in the end their arguement is not valid.

You keep overstating your case.

Yes, hatred of the image has a lot to do with it, but hatred of the quality, style and so on are important factors.

Let me give you an example. Where I live, Earnest Sewn jeans worn by the same people who wear 7FAM and True Religions. Especially for women, ES seem to be in the exact same catagory. However, I don't see ES getting the same kind of hate that True Religion does on SuFu or SF. Why? Becuase ES does make some very nice jeans and their quality is good and so on. Their fultons are very nice jeans and few people, if anyone, would mock you on here for wearing them.

Hell, people on SuFu were going nuts on GAP jeans for awhile because GAP made a line of decent raw selvage jeans at a good price.

 

[Clench Million]

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

On men I'd probably agree with this. However, their target market is female and I think they do a good job there.

I must admit I'm really only thinking of men's jeans here. Women's jeans seem like a whole different realm (though I still find TR's style, stitching, back pockets and so on to be ugly no matter what.)

I disagree and A&F is a bad example to use. IMO they have some of the best price/quality of any company out there especially in their basics. Armani Exchange, Banana Republic, Club Monaco, etc... would be good examples of poor quality relative to price.

Either way. But I wasn't talking about A&F as a whole, just pointing out that the branding is what you pay for. A&F t-shirts aren't made out of diamonds. They don't last you 100 years. They don't feel softer or nicer than American Apparel or really probably even Hanes. But because they slap a logo on it they can sell the shirt for10 times as much. Same for those other brands.

 

[slycedbred]

Originally Posted by SoCal2NYC

Are we talking about the fabric or the end product?


We typically hear that Men's Wearhouse suits are falling apart faster than Kiton than do when it is Levi's purchased at TJ Maxx compared to the Samurai's purchased from some Japanese proxy service.

While there are differences in "quality" of the end product, I think the range between the "good and the bad" is a lot smaller than it is with tailored clothing. That's why I think be it Rock & Republic for the bros or the 45 RPM for the SF kiddies in the know it still comes down to marketing and preceived brand image and appeal.

+1. Socal, you're starting to make too much sense! This is quite out of character.

 

[constant struggle]

Originally Posted by Clench Million

There isn't anything wrong with it. Though for me it is more a matter of not wishing to have certain preconceived notions placed on me, if that makes sense.

Like it or not, the reality is that dressing a certain way will make people who meet you make certain assumptions. That is just the way life works. I prefer to avoid those kinds of "mall brands" for any clothing items more because I don't want to be associated with those images more than because I want to be some radical fashion individual. Of course, it helps that I find their clothing ugly.

yep

 

[drizzt3117]

Originally Posted by Clench Million

Either way. But I wasn't talking about A&F as a whole, just pointing out that the branding is what you pay for. A&F t-shirts aren't made out of diamonds. They don't last you 100 years. They don't feel softer or nicer than American Apparel or really probably even Hanes. But because they slap a logo on it they can sell the shirt for10 times as much. Same for those other brands.

A&F Ts are $25-30... AA Ts are $3?

 

[Clench Million]

Another thing I might point out is that part of the popularity of jeans like APCs is that they have no branding. No pocket stitching, no tabs, etc. Likewise on sites like this and SuFu you see lots of people buying Nudies or Flatheads and removing the pocket stitching so the jeans aren't identifiable.

Again, I agree there is groupthink going on with raw denim (as there is with anything) but I disagree that it is simply the exact same as people who spend tons of money on jeans with medicore quality simply so they can have huge gaudy branding on their asses and let everyone know how hip they are.

 

[Clench Million]

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

A&F Ts are $25-30... AA Ts are $3?
Hmm, I don't ever shop at A&F and looking online they aren't quite as expensive as I had thought. But no, I didn't mean AA were one tenth the price (obviously AA tees are fairly expensive... although checking online you can get 7 for 77 bucks). I meant that you can buy like a three pack of Hanes t-shirts for mad cheap.

 

[braidkid]

Originally Posted by blackplatano

If you discount TR/RR/7 because the look is contrived, then you must also discount antiqued shoes, Carpe Diem boots, distressed leather goods as poser clothing too (by your logic).

I admit a love for CD boots but I never equated that level of distressing to those on mall brand jeans. Also, there is no branding on a pair of CD boots. Yes, I have disdain for distressed leather goods in general for the reasons of inauthenticity.

Originally Posted by blackplatano

If you dislike "premium denim" because of a bad association, which is perfectly OK, you can not in term try to rationalize your dislike in terms of tangible qualities.
That is what goes on in SF. People dislike the image of TR/7/RR and then try to rationalize their dislike by critizing real qualities (like fit), but those real qualities aren't the reason, bad association is, so in the end their arguement is not valid.

I agree with what you are saying here. Yes, certain mall brands may fit very well. Again, the main reason I have disdain for mall brands is not because it is the popular sufu concensus, but rather an appreciation for authenticity and integrity of my own personal distressing.
[/quote]

Originally Posted by blackplatano

Seriously, all I want is a pair of raw jeans in a nice fit that is built as well as possible to 21st century standards, not with the flaws of 1900's Levi's.
Authenticity, like uniqueness, doesn't come from clothes, it comes from you. The whole authenticity aspect of Japanese repros doesn't attract me because the act of researching a pair of jeans then paying some guy in japan to buy them for you is pretty unauthenthic. Authenticity would be buying it down the street.

There are some Japanese brands using poly/cotton threads such as Flathead. Perhaps you could consider these. Bottom line is, any jean worn for a year straight will need repairs, not just japanese denim.

Originally Posted by blackplatano

The whole authenticity aspect of Japanese repros doesn't attract me because the act of researching a pair of jeans then paying some guy in japan to buy them for you is pretty unauthenthic. Authenticity would be buying it down the street.

Sounds like you need to move to Japan

 

[braidkid]

Originally Posted by Clench Million

Another thing I might point out is that part of the popularity of jeans like APCs is that they have no branding. No pocket stitching, no tabs, etc. Likewise on sites like this and SuFu you see lots of people buying Nudies or Flatheads and removing the pocket stitching so the jeans aren't identifiable.

Again, I agree there is groupthink going on with raw denim (as there is with anything) but I disagree that it is simply the exact same as people who spend tons of money on jeans with medicore quality simply so they can have huge gaudy branding on their asses and let everyone know how hip they are.

Yup, hence another reason I hate mall brands. There is a certain elegance and class in not displaying branding.

Another reason of my disdain for mall brands is the fact the only reason people buy them is to show off and gain label recognition. I would rather my clothing represent itself for it's fit and character rather than it's branding.

 

[blackplatano]

Originally Posted by datasupa

also, there's no point arguing with blackplatano, reasoning is not his forte.


That is like brian gumble criticizing malcom-X for not been black enough.

Originally Posted by Clench Million

You keep overstating your case.

Yes, hatred of the image has a lot to do with it, but hatred of the quality, style and so on are important factors.

Let me give you an example. Where I live, Earnest Sewn jeans worn by the same people who wear 7FAM and True Religions. Especially for women, ES seem to be in the exact same catagory. However, I don't see ES getting the same kind of hate that True Religion does on SuFu or SF. Why? Becuase ES does make some very nice jeans and their quality is good and so on. Their fultons are very nice jeans and few people, if anyone, would mock you on here for wearing them.

Hell, people on SuFu were going nuts on GAP jeans for awhile because GAP made a line of decent raw selvage jeans at a good price.

First of all, you need to look at my post in context.
Second of all, ES make some boring ass fades that SF consider subtle. Or course they consider it better than 7fam, the pants are almost raw! Look at it this way, the closer a pair of jeans are to been raw, the more SF likes them. The denim market is an intangible quality, when we consider only tangible qualities most arguements fall flat. That is my point. So intangible qualities are the real reason (i.e perception)

ES for example are very different from the rest of the premium brands. SF doesn't hate them because they are the lesser of the two evils. I still wouldn't wear them, their quality is crap to me (for fading purposes).

BTW. the whole GAP thing is false. People were saying the end of raw denim has arrived, they weren't praising it. Also, it was the broke high school kids who loved GAP the most. The consensus was that they were OK for the price, they were FAR from SuFu approved.

Please let's not try to pretend SF and SuFu are magical kingdoms ruled by logic. these forum are more illogical than the stock market.

 

[Clench Million]

Second of all, ES make some boring ass fades that SF consider subtle. Or course they consider it better than 7fam, the pants are almost raw!

I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly, but I as saying people on here and SuFu like the ACTUAL dry denim, not hte "almost" dry ones.

Personally I think fades SHOULD be subtle and are better when subtle... but that is all a matter of tastes.

The gap thing is not false. As you say, the consesus was they were good for the price and most people approved of them. I didn't claim or imply every member of SuFu went out and bought 10 pairs or that anyone claimed they were the same quality of the SuFu approved brands...

You are missing the point.

 

[RustyRyan]

I normally keep out of these discussions but here goes. I think a lot of people of SF and Sufu get way to deep into the "deep" meaning behind jeans. I'm very passionate about high quality things like denim and boots but it comes down to: you either like how they look or you don't. I wear both kinds of jeans: Japnanese Denim to the occansional mall/boutique brands depending on the look I'm going for from 45 rpm Jomons and PRPS to gap. Just because someone wants a pair of jeans that look beat up and distressed without wearing them for 5 years to get them to look that way doesn't mean they are stupid or the jeans are ****** quality. Conversely just because you are wearing japanese denim repro doesn't mean you are wearing the holy grail of quality jeans...I've had to send my $480 Sorahikos back to 45rpm twice since I got them in Oct because the crotch has come unraveled(and no I do not size down, EVER). I think there has been a lot of talk on Sufu about Skulls quality or lack there of. I have a lot of friends that wear 7fam and AG jeans and none of them have ever had quality issue like I've seen with some of the Japanese denim. Don't get me wrong, I really don't like mall brands that much either...i would never be caught dead in TR or RR jeans and I think people wearing the look like stupid sheep, just like I think a lot of the people wearing skin tight, painted on raw japanese denim do too, but to use the old cliche, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Sorry, rant over.

 

[Mauro]

Most of you bring up very good arguments . I think that the way this thread is set up it is hard to answer everyones question.
Brand idenity , quality, durabilty, and value are all different topics and can't always be discussed in the same debate. They have such a different impact on everyone.
I stand by my earlier post.
I think it is hard to argue something without knowing the facts and that's what a lot of you are doing.
I wish I was more articulate and could write better so I could break down what I am trying to say.
until you know the difference in wash techiques, notions, Fabric quality, import and export tax laws, supply and demand, brand marketing and a dozen other things you are just speaking from what you believe in.

To help all of you that's why I choose to carry ALL different types of brands so everyone can be happy and I can make sure if you are going to by some TR's you won't leave my store a total duesche bag