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whnay.'s good taste thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    meh. at least you arent a pushover. ill give you that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  2. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    Objectively, I think :foo: is aesthetically adorable :embar:


    Thurston Howell II ?
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I'm the only one. The combination is actually quite rare amongst the dressers I appreciate. Hell, you rarely wear it yourself. Convention and reliance on convention is the only thing keeping it alive.


    Is that your opinion?

    If I believe an opinion has no objective basis, I don't share it and usually don't keep it. I think doing otherwise is the real crime.
     
  4. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Well-Known Member

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    A wise man once said that Foo states opinions as facts...
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  5. RSS

    RSS Well-Known Member

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    Well, everyone knows I live on an island.
     
  6. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    A truly wise man knows that it makes no difference what you call an idea or belief. What matters is whether it has merit. What is often called "fact" is just an opinion you were too lazy to investigate. So investigate everything and forget what you feel the impulse to call it.
     
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  7. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    White shirt / white square seems like the least contrived thing in the world. Everyone owns (or certainly should own) both. The lack of creativity which you decry would indicate that there is no contrivance. The effort involved in matching the shades of blue in a shirt / square would, however, make that look contrived.

    You can dislike it but I don't think it's reasonable to say that either a white shirt or a white square or the combination is at all distracting. Even if they focus attention on the tie, it would be up to the tie to provide any distraction.



    Cartoonish is perhaps the least apt adjective for that look. You may have a point with boring (though that's hardly a demerit in my book) but 'cartoonish' is grasping for straws.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  8. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Well-Known Member

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    Foo, you will have an easier time with this topic when you realize that there are no facts about clothing choices. Just because I say that Pulp Fiction is the best Quintin Tarantino film, and present many reasons why it is such, does not make it such. Same with your white square/white shirt opinion. You've stated multiple times why you think it's bad. Fine, great. You think so, others don't. If you stop begrudging everyone with your factpinions, we can move on. :nodding:
     
  9. clapeyron

    clapeyron Well-Known Member

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    I love this.
     
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  10. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a way of knowing something to be true that is independent of your reasons for believing it in the first place?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  11. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    ok, ok.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  12. clapeyron

    clapeyron Well-Known Member

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    reservoir dogs is the best. that's a fact.
     
  13. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Well-Known Member

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    In this case, yes. I've tried a white shirt and white square and liked it. :)
     
  14. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    You keep skipping past the non-trivial difference between “not ideal” and “objectively bad.”

    But anyway, consider for a moment two things that do lay just claim to being considered objectively, as opposed to conventionally, aesthetically pleasing.

    First, the ancient Greeks recognized the “golden ratio” the equation for which you can look up, but the point is, it results in a ratio of two unequal parts, let’s call them A and B, where A is longer/larger than B and A is to A+B what B is to A. Or, doing the math, 1:1.618 …

    Now, for about 2,500 years aestheticians of various kinds—including sculptors, architects and so on—have incorporated this ratio into their works, many of which—including the Parthenon—are considered to be among the most successfully aesthetically pleasing of all time. There appears to be something about the Golden Ratio that appeals to the human eyes and brain on a structural level that transcends not only the medium but even time, place and culture. Perhaps not everyone cares or sees it or “feels” it but most do, which is what makes it objectively aesthetically superior.

    Or consider male opinions of female beauty. Modern conventional wisdom would have us believe that this is all relative to man viewing but many studies have shown that is not so. There certain things that all men, more or less everywhere, find pleasing, among them facial symmetry and a 0.7 waist-hip ratio. Ask a random, representative sample of men to rank various women and the results will be strikingly consistent. There may be differences in the margins—Joe says Jane is a 7, Jim says she’s an 8—but Joe, Jim and everyone else will all agree on the 7-8 v. the 3-4 and even the 5-6.

    So, in one sense beauty is not in the eye of the beholder, if what is meant is that standards of beauty are completely relative and have no static frame of reference. But in another sense beauty IS in the eye of the beholder because there is no other metric for judging it. If something does not appear to be beautiful then it is not. There can be things of extreme refinement that most people will not “get” that are nonetheless beautiful—the Grosse Fugue comes to mind. But the chances that something can be objectively ugly but only understood to be so by one person are vanishingly remote, and almost a logical impossibility.

    What we really have here is a non-rule rule. Well, fine. One of my non-rule rules is no solid socks. I literally own one pair of solid (black) dress socks, which I only wear with chef clogs. But there is nothing incorrect or even aesthetically bad about them, I just don’t like them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
    2 people like this.
  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    You miss the point. Whether you like it is irrelevant. You could just a slave to convention that doesn't want to admit it to yourself.
     
  16. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you miss the point? Whether you don't like it is irrelevant. You could just be arguing about something that doesn't have a clear answer and don't want to admit it to yourself.
     
  17. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    :facepalm:

    You can't decide that you have enough reasons to believe and then save some left over reasons in order to later upgrade that belief to knowledge.
     
  18. RSS

    RSS Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Well-Known Member

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    Dude, I like white shirt/white PS. Am I saying that people should wear that combination? No. I'm saying I like it. What are you confused about?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  20. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    You are discussing the combination of white shirt and white pocket square.

    I am discussing the combination of believing and knowing.

    Get on my level.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012

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