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Which colour shoe polish for Herring Chamberlain?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by teacher2, May 27, 2012.

  1. teacher2

    teacher2 Well-Known Member

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  2. LeJouvre

    LeJouvre Well-Known Member

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    If you use Saphir you will find the Brown #4 is going to mismatch and you will lose the red undertones.

    You will need to take some of their Hermes red and add medium brown small amounts of dark brown to get the exact color.

    Let me ask you this, why do you need to color the shoes?

    You should only use color if there are scuffs or bad marks, otherwise just use renovateur.
     
  3. teacher2

    teacher2 Well-Known Member

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    This is my first pair of brown shoes... so please excuse my ignorance.

    With all of my black shoes, I polish them with Saphir Pate de Luxe Wax Shoe Polish 100 ml ... I recently got Renovateur (so, only used it once).... but, I was planning on using that every couple of months (as opposed to using the MDO Wax Shoe Polish every about five uses (3 weeks)).

    Are you saying that I shouldn't polish these brown shoes with Saphir Pate de Luxe Wax Shoe Polish every few wears?

    I thought using renovateur every 5 or so wears would be too much and do some damage?

    So, if there are minor scruffs, what do I use?
     
  4. LeJouvre

    LeJouvre Well-Known Member

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    Look, the first mistake a new shoe enthusiast makes is he loves his shoe death, literally, they tend to want to start feeding the shoes and polishing them and cleaning them and brushing them and then they start all over again and again until they destroy them.

    If this is a new pair of shoes, just give them a GENTLE wipe with a slightly damp cloth, remove all dust and dirt.

    Then a light quick brushing with a good horsehair brush.

    Then use a very small amount of Renovateur (it does not have to be the expensive one either, it can be the Saphir Renovateur which is not the Medaille D'Or)

    Another product which you could use is their Baume http://www.valmour.com/cleaning-products/mat-leather-balm-avel,521.

    put small amounts of product, nothing excessive. and then when the product has gone tacky and is almost dry, bust brush gently until you get a shine and the surface accumulation of the product has been removed.

    If you want the shoe to really shine I would recommend that you do not start a shining program until you have treated the leather well enough to have made it supple and healthy. This takes at least a few days to do, even for brand panking new shoes straight off the shelf.

    To get them ready for a good shining you treat the shoes daily with small amounts of a good product, like Renovateur or Baume Cuir from Saphir until the leather feels nice and soft to the touch.

    Then take Saphir "Graisse" http://www.valmour.com/cleaning-products/grease-saphir-medaille-dor,54

    Give the shoe one or two applications of "Graisse" and wait at least a day for the product to fully penetrate. If necessary repeat once more.

    Then start your first shining regime of shining by using the creams and then, lastly, the Pate de Luxe from Saphir.

    There should be no reason to use color unless your shoes have been scraped or scuffed or damaged to the extent that the leather has lost some color.

    You would use a "incolor" from Saphir in both the cream as well as the Pate de Luxe.

    If you only want to buy one product then buy the tin of Baume Cuir, don't even bother with the renovateur in this case. Baume Cuir should be all you need if you just want the shoes to maintain a good healthy appearance.

    Too much hype over these polishes and products leaves people with the impression that care of shoes is highly complex when it is really quite a simple and easy process which we enthusiasts tend to complicate too much.

    Get on with wearing and enjoying the shoes and don't try to color them just yet, they still look brand new.

    When you really do need to color them, you will find you are going to need to decide on a color and might even have to mix your own color to match perfectly or you will need to put up with using a similar color and build up a nice patina.
     
  5. Stirling

    Stirling Well-Known Member

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    Some really bad advice here.
     
  6. cbfn

    cbfn Well-Known Member

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  7. Stirling

    Stirling Well-Known Member

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    Just because you suffer from a very limited amount of knowledge yourself & have to rely on internet guides - please don't assume everyone is as pathetic as you.
     
  8. cbfn

    cbfn Well-Known Member

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    I was just looking for the reason why you called it a "really bad" advice. If you have such a vast amount of knowledge about caring for delicate leathers, I would love the hear it and get a explanation on your unfounded statement.
     
  9. Stirling

    Stirling Well-Known Member

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    Delicate leathers? Do you even know what you are talking about? Shall I find you a guide on 'how to write a post'
     
  10. habanos

    habanos Well-Known Member

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    Herring will send matching polish with these shoes OP.
     
  11. Northampton Novice

    Northampton Novice Well-Known Member

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    I would use Saphir Mahogany it's the better choice over the browns.
     
  12. cbfn

    cbfn Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they will include a tin of wax in the box, but the wax isn't the best after my experience, and I would rather recommend using e.g. Saphir MDO.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  13. Northampton Novice

    Northampton Novice Well-Known Member

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    What's f.ex?
     
  14. cbfn

    cbfn Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I meant e.g..
     
  15. teacher2

    teacher2 Well-Known Member

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    The OP lost the matching polish that came with these shoes :(

    Northampton, guessing, 'for example'.

    LeJourve, I'm a bit confused about 'colouring'... Is http://www.hangerproject.com/closet/saphir-wax-shoe-polish.html 'colouring' and hence a 'no no'?

    At the end of the day, I have Renaveutor, and I was planning to purchase one more product, which was going to be the
    Saphir Pate de Luxe Wax Shoe Polish 100 ml . Are you saying that if I was to only use two products (Renaveutor and one more), I shouldn't use the Pate de Luxe?


    If I were to get one product (besides the Renaveutor), which one do you recommend? Should I get the Saphir Pommadier Cream Shoe Polish ? It was my understanding that this would not get as shiny as the Pate de Lux...

    TL;DR?
    Which product, in which colour, should I get, in addition to the Renavetor?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  16. LeJouvre

    LeJouvre Well-Known Member

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    Correct, it will not get as shiny, for "shiny" you use pate de lux - but I get SHIT scared of you talking about COLORS!!!

    OP, what exactly do you want to do with these shoes?

    Do you :-

    1- want to add to the existing color? Are you not happy with the color of the new shoes? or
    2- want to recolor damaged leather back to the original color of the shoes? or
    3- get a patina going on the shoes?
    4- simply maintain and care for your new shoes so that they last and look as good as new for as long as possible.
    5- leave the color of the shoes alone but bring about a really good shine

    Each of the above requires an entirely different regime of polishing, so tell me what it is exactly that you want to do.

    Polishing is not a simple uniform process, you do different things to achieve different outcomes.

    I assume you are trying to do #4 in my list above.

    If this is the case you need a product which feeds and nurtures the leather and maintains its suppleness.

    In this case all you need is a good lint free cloth, good quality shoe brushes and a good leather balm or cream. You need the cloth and brushes for cleaning and for removing excess product and also for shining and you need the balm for nurturing and also to give the shoes a healthy looking sheen.

    ONE OF the best leather balms on the market is a product called Renovateur by Saphir, but it is NOT THE ONLY GOOD PRODUCT!

    If you are using these shoes as a daily staple wear you do not need to use a product which is so very expensive and which is really not essential for a simple pair of shoes in daily use.

    The same company which produces Renovateur also produce numerous other products, like "Baum Cuir" which is considerably cheaper, but hey, if you MUST spend the money on Medaille D'Or, go right ahead, only do NOT overdo it, you will find the shoes will look terrible once you wear them as the product will be released by the leather at every crease and they will look horrible.

    You do not need to color your new shoes until the shoes begin to become scuffed. Good quality shoes do not suddenly start to lose their color after they have been worn a few times. I have shoes which i have worn for many years which have NEVER NEEDED COLOR, only renovateur, cleaners and colorless cream and waxes.

    When they have been used and they start to show scuffs and other signs of wear which require a bit of recoloring, then, typically, you would use a cream, like Pommadier Medaille D'oR shoe cream here:-

    http://www.valmour.com/cleaning-products/cream-shoe-polish-pommadier-saphir-medaille-dor,45

    BUT the colors are limited and so you either mix colors from various shades to match your shoes or you ask the manufacturer if they have the exact color for your shoes EXCEPT these shoes ar not a uniform color.

    Please note that you will see a sort of underlying redness to your shoes covered by what appears to be a dark brown. This is not easy to match with some singular colored cream.

    Once you start using color polish or cream on your shoes you are going to have to put up with a change in the color of your shoes, and remember, once it is on, tough titty mate, you're committed, you cant' go back!

    If your shoes are not EXACTLY the color of one of the Pommadier colors (and i can guarantee they aren't) then you need to MAKE a close match because you will have to use alternative colors from another range of products also from Saphir like this range of creams here:-

    http://www.valmour.com/cleaning-products/shoe-polish-creme-surfine-pommadier-saphir,3

    These creams will color the shoes but they might not be the identical color to your original color of your shoes.

    Okay after you have used a colored cream on your shoes, what can you put on next?

    You could use the PAte de Lux, which is a wax polish.

    The Saphir Pate de Luxe is not a cream, it is a polish. Polish does not color leather as intensely as the cream but it does leave a color on the shoe and the Saphir product leaves a nice healthy shine for those who like their shoes to have a glossy look to them.

    Sometimes I use colorless "incolor" shoe cream and OVER the cream I sometimes add a little color by using a colored wax. Why? because that way the color of the shoe leather underneath does not get too colored by the wax which can mostly be removed later on and the original color can be largely restored.

    Again, if you are happy with the color of your shoes, why change it at all? Why use any color? Why not use neutral creams and polishers which will not harm the original polish put there by the factory?

    You could go ahead and use creams and polishes in the neutral or "incolor" which has no color, it simply highlights the original color of the shoes applied by the factory's polisher.

    Just use neutral products with no color until your shoes actually need to have color applied.

    When they need color use the two products in the links I have supplied or get your original Herring shoe supplier to send you a tin/bottle of the correct color cream for your shoes.

    If the supplier cannot send you the exact color (which I doubt he will be ab;e to because your shoes have multiple colors) well then you will need to mix various colors to find the perfect color for the shoes.

    Another thing, those shoes have an "antique" finish, so they are not uniformly colored anyway, so you are going to need to use at least two but probably more than two different colors anyway.

    When selecting a color try to find not only the same color, but also the a few shades lighter because polish does darken the shoe and you don't want them to go too dark too quickly.

    Check out this website for an expert polisher and personal friend, Justin Fitzpatrick, who polishes for Gieves and Hawkes at No1 Saville Row, London:-

    http://the-shoe-snob.blogspot.com.au/p/polish-your-shoes-properly.html

    and another person whom even Justin "the shoe snob" Fitzgerald uses for his "too hard to do jobs" is Frenchman Paulus Bolton at this website:-


    http://www.glacagechaussures.com/

    Paulus Bolton is a good friend and an absolute magician with shoe polishing and glacage. Paulus will sell you any Saphir product you need if you e-mail him or telephone him at his studio in France.
    Or even speak to Australian shoe fundi extraordinaire, Ethan Desau from "The Armoury" in Hong Kong. Check out Ethan's masterpiece with G&G boots for another friend (and bigtime SF member) mine here:-

    http://jamessandersatlarge.tumblr.com/post/18499803396/lacasuarina-yesterday-morning-my-new-gaziano
    This is what blue wax polish (and other stuff of course) looks like on red leather, like Cherry for example, when Ethan is finished working his magic:--

    [​IMG]

    Whatever you do, if you value your shoes, don't start using colors until you have experimented with some old crappy pair of shoes first, you will only destroy your beautiful new shoes if you go and stick some uniform color over a beautifully polished and antique finish like those Chamberlains of yours.

    If you need more help, just PM me because I am not really interested in all the ignorant trolls who know nothing of the art of shoe polishing coming out and hurling ignorant criticism about what is good practice and what is not.

    I'd be very happy to help, but PM me first
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  17. fxh

    fxh Well-Known Member

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    Teacher2 - unfortunately I cant claim to be close personal friends with any world famous shoe polishers

    But I have worn shoes, polished them and worn them again.

    You could do what most people do - find a tin of polish or a tube of cream about the same colour as the shoes.

    Apply it and polish shoes.

    Wear them.

    When you next polish them decide if you want to go a bit lighter or darker.

    Perhaps buy a slightly darker or lighter polish and try it out.

    Its not all that complicated and many ordinary people over the centuries have managed to clean and polish their shoes successfully. Even before the internet.
     
  18. LeJouvre

    LeJouvre Well-Known Member

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    I think the OP was asking for advice on WHICH "tin" or which "tube" or which "cream" of shoe polish.

    I thought he was also specifically asking WHICH color

    And when you decide to go "slightly lighter" what the heck are you going to do with the "slightly darker" already on there?

    Are you implying the OP should resign himself to no other option other than a patina created through trial and error? If that is what he wants then explain to him how to do that.

    I don't think it is sound advice to tell a person who obviously cares for these shoes and wants to maintain the integrity of the colors, to go about trying one color after the other until they are either really nice by sheer fluke or really crappy and in need of good polisher to sort out the mess.

    In fact, I get the impression this is exactly what the OP is trying to avoid with his original post.
     
  19. Stirling

    Stirling Well-Known Member

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    LeJouvre, for the sake of brevity I have emboldened & numbered some of the key points in your posts. You accuse others of being ignorant, when in fact it is obvious the opposite is true.

    1) Well actually Saphir Renovateur is not a balm it is cream. It's an important distinction balms contain no water, creams do.

    2) Renovateur, cleaners and neutral creams & polishes will all take a little bit of the finish and hence colour with them whenever used, their continued use alone would necessitate the need to use a coloured cream.

    3) Not true at all. Any basic cleaner will remove remnants of leather waxes/creams. Anyone who has cleaned a pair of shoes knows this.

    4) I know several authoritative sources that would disagree with this.Neutral polish should be used occasionally and several esteemed makers like Lobb, Santoni & Berluti support this view as do a number of European tanneries that supply them.

    Before dispensing advice one should be mindful of spreading ignorance & misinformation.
     
  20. LeJouvre

    LeJouvre Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Stirling, great contribution, and I will keep your comments in mind. [​IMG]

    While you still know it all perhaps I could take a few lessons? - or no perhaps you could distribute some of your wisdom and experience for all to see instead of bland statements like "several authoritative sources disagree"

    The OP's original question still stands, and since you are long on criticism and very short on advice, maybe you could give us all the benefit of your little knowledge and experience and help the OP out with some answers?.

    I for one would be greatly amused!
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2012

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