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what makes Seven for all mankind and Hudson jeans so expensive?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Brocktherock, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. idfnl

    idfnl Well-Known Member

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    7 for all mankind are low brow. I only wear 8 for all mankind.
     
  2. ArliHawk`

    ArliHawk` Well-Known Member

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    If you like the quality of 7's, you just as well save a lot of money and buy some jeans from the Gap.
     
  3. james_timothy

    james_timothy Well-Known Member

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    Why are the MC's so resistant to visiting SW&D?

    Those that do say they are well received: PG, NOBD, Doc, Man of Kent are the ones that leap to mind
    as having posted in the WAYRN thread there. And there is great stuff on jeans over there, amongst a lot of other good stuff.

    One secret is Nigel Cabourn. A brand; sort of technical british heritage; a good place to start building a casual identity (if money is no object). It would never appear over here, but many people here would love it if they just were exposed to it. SW&D is worth the visit.
     
  4. wannabe

    wannabe Well-Known Member

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    7 for all mankind are low brow. I only wear 8 for all mankind.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Gibonius

    Gibonius Well-Known Member

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    Why are the MC's so resistant to visiting SW&D?
    I'm just part of the peanut gallery, but I've tried to get into the SW&D subforum from time to time and I just can't get over all the mega-threads. If you get lucky enough with searching to find the right thread, you still have to wade through thousands of posts to find whatever you were looking for. I suppose there's some reason SW&D evolved into this structure, but it's just brutal for an outsider to try and process. I doubt I'd have signed up for SF at all if MC was structured that way.
     
  6. laphroaig

    laphroaig Well-Known Member

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    Why are the MC's so resistant to visiting SW&D?
    Because the rise is unacceptably low, and there is too much black.
     
  7. Patek

    Patek Well-Known Member

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    How about some food for thought: If I'm looking to buy a formal suit, as a SW&Der would I walk into a Levi's store? The answer is no because as an SW&Der it makes as much sense as going to Zegna, Corneliani, Brioni, etc. for my denim needs.
    Maybe I sounded sarcastic, but I meant that with sincerity. Many people have their particular fetishes. Mine are clothes, watches, and cars. It bugs the crap out of me that people buy a $5k suit and then throw on a damn Rolex diving watch. I know I don't have the best denim on earth, but I like learning about it.
     
  8. pvrhye

    pvrhye Well-Known Member

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    I do wonder what percentage of all mankind could afford seven pairs of these jeans.
     
  9. Lel

    Lel Well-Known Member

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    Why are the MC's so resistant to visiting SW&D?
    Inherent and strong dislike of anything outside of their aesthetic? Remember when SoCal used to post in MC WAYWRN? Hordes of people hated on it constantly and while I'm not saying most of his fits worked, they did a nice job of adding diversity even to the SW&D WAYWT where every other picture is the same button down, raw denim, casual boots look. Diversity of styles is very accepted on SW&D yet seemingly shunned on MC. EDIT: To clarify the last statement, a lot of SW&D members especially appreciate when members can pull of looks they can't yet MC members blast such outfits based on MC-criteria (user Snake, for example). Also furthermore it seems like MCers love to make over generalizations about SW&D. According to douches like lutfvier we all shop at Urban Outfitters and wear keffiyehs, and even in this thread apparently we love "diaper styled denim from D&G", you know completely ignoring the fact that D&G doesn't make that aesthetic nor does SW&D even like D&G.
     
  10. SuitMyself

    SuitMyself Well-Known Member

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    This makes no damn sense. Selvedge does not necessarily equate to quality.

    I have two or three pairs of 7FAM because they're the most comfortable jeans I own to this date. And I own about 50 pairs of jeans ranging from $100-$1,200. They are usually my go to jeans when I want a comfortable day out.


    $1,200 for ONE pair of jeans? Are you insane?
     
  11. MikeDT

    MikeDT Well-Known Member

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    $1,200 for ONE pair of jeans? Are you insane?
    Indeed, however I would also say the exact same thing about paying $4,000+ for ONE suit, or paying $1,000+ for a SINGLE pair of shoes. [​IMG] A fool and his money are soon parted.
     
  12. laphroaig

    laphroaig Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, however I would also say the exact same thing about paying $4,000+ for ONE suit, or paying $1,000+ for a SINGLE pair of shoes. [​IMG] A fool and his money are soon parted.
    Completely different things. It takes 2 specialists (a cutter and tailor) on an OK western salary equivalent about half a week to make that bespoke suit, plus material costs. It takes one cobbler on an OK western salary several days to make that pair or shoes, plus materials. It takes some mega factory the equivalent of 30 man-minutes to make that $1200 pair of jeans. The only reason everything appears cheap is because of either mechanisation or 3rd world worker exploitation. [​IMG] A fool and his money is right.. If you had someone on a banker's salary making that suit or shoes, you'd be adding another 0 to those prices.
     
  13. idfnl

    idfnl Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, however I would also say the exact same thing about paying $4,000+ for ONE suit, or paying $1,000+ for a SINGLE pair of shoes.

    [​IMG] A fool and his money are soon parted.


    Completely different things.

    It takes 2 specialists (a cutter and tailor) on an OK western salary equivalent about half a week to make that bespoke suit, plus material costs.

    It takes one cobbler on an OK western salary several days to make that pair or shoes, plus materials.

    It takes some mega factory the equivalent of 30 man-minutes to make that $1200 pair of jeans.

    The only reason everything appears cheap is because of either mechanisation or 3rd world worker exploitation. [​IMG] A fool and his money is right.. If you had someone on a banker's salary making that suit or shoes, you'd be adding another 0 to those prices.


    This.

    $1200, sounds like you own Bijan jeans.
     
  14. MikeDT

    MikeDT Well-Known Member

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    This. $1200, sounds like you own Bijan jeans.
    Exactly. Not all jeans are mass produced in Chinese mega-factories. There are jeans produced with as much time, care and attention to detail as those $4000 suits and $1000 shoes. Sent from Tapatalk.
     
  15. NOBD

    NOBD Well-Known Member

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    [...] I doubt I'd have signed up for SF at all if MC was structured that way.

    MC is structured? Maybe, like Groundhog Day is structured, but other than that...
     
  16. Gibonius

    Gibonius Well-Known Member

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    MC is structured? Maybe, like Groundhog Day is structured, but other than that...
    MC is kind of a mess if you actually read it every day, but for searching? Worlds better than the mega-threads. Really though, what's the point of the mega-threads? Telling noobs to "search more" then expecting them to read 10k posts seems cruel. Maybe I'm just used to threaded forums and can't see the advantages.
     
  17. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    It takes some mega factory the equivalent of 30 man-minutes to make that $1200 pair of jeans.

    By the same token, you can buy a suit that took some guy 30 minutes to make. I'm guessing that you are being deliberately provocative, but you come off sounding ignorant.

    The most expensive denim is painstakingly difficult and time consuming to work with. Yarn can combed and carded by hand, and dipped and sundried several dozen times before it is woven on specialized machines specifically designed to mimic century old techniques. The output from these machines is very low, and the amount of denim made can be extremely low. On selvedge denim jeans, it can take a lot of yarns of denim to make a pair, because you have more waste if you need selvedge outseams.

    A lot of the more coveted denim is made in extremely small batches, which incurs a significant upcharge.

    A recent WSJ article quoted the labor for manufacture at $9, but for a pair of artisanal denim jeans, the cost can be considerably higher, especially if made in Japan. Definitely not as high as for a great or even good suit, but then again, a really good suit costs about 10 times as much.

    Finishes can cost as much as $40. This is a major expense, obviously, and $40 post manufacture treatments are rare, but a $16-20 wash is fairly commonplace on the better jeans. Yes, you can tell the difference.

    I recently saw a pair of Carhartt's "high end" jeans, which they tried to retail at around $65. Terrible cut aside, the materials, make and finishing were all truly atrocious. Brands like J. Crew and The GAP can do better for less because of the huge volume, but even then, they are forced to take obvious shortcuts.

    Now, a $1200 pair of jeans (and the only jeans I've seen in that range are either made by luxury companies, who make "jeans" out of non-standard materials like cashmere, or are the jeans by Rby45RPM with lots of extra bells and whistles (silver rivets and buttons - completely unnecessary, pocket bags made from the most expensive shirting fabric, and so on.) However, I've seen plenty of $400-$500 jeans, and even $800 jeans, that are not marked up as much as a high end RTW suit.
     
  18. NOBD

    NOBD Well-Known Member

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    MC is kind of a mess if you actually read it every day, but for searching? Worlds better than the mega-threads.

    Really though, what's the point of the mega-threads? Telling noobs to "search more" then expecting them to read 10k posts seems cruel. Maybe I'm just used to threaded forums and can't see the advantages.


    I understand threads can get too big. But every day I see dozens of new threads about the same topics. I'd like to see more general threads, like the Shirt Porn, Soporific Ties and Unfunded Liabilities threads. A lot of information is scattered across the forum in threads that disappear after a few days. That way, the information doesn't get better. It just gets repeated and probably gets worse, because the 'experts' are not answering the same questions anymore.

    If there were more 'expert threads' you could refer those threads to new posters. I think there's not enough cross-referring and linking on the forum at all. It isn't a web with interconnections, it's just one long thread that goes round and round.
     
  19. whodini

    whodini Well-Known Member

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    Many people have their particular fetishes. Mine are clothes, watches, and cars. It bugs the crap out of me that people buy a $5k suit and then throw on a damn Rolex diving watch.
    It's human nature that we invest more in things we're interested in and less in what we're not. It irks me when people are wasting good money on jeans so-called "premium" jeans and then defending the purchase to people who know jeans or to others that don't. They just don't know better.

    I'm not trying to mock or belittle people, rather, I'm trying to air out some personal confusion. I understand that if my world was Brioni and Brioni sold jeans marketed for people that bought Brioni, then I would assume that if Brioni was good then their jeans would be, too. I'd be buying strictly based on label, or because it wouldn't require any research or real shopping around on my part, or both. The same can be said as to why 7, Hudson, etc. is popular on here: they see what everyone is buying (brand recognition) or what's readily available and that's enough for them.

    But people here like clothes and are members of a forum that specifically deals with jeans so... why not spend a minute to see if they're really getting the best for their money?

    I wear suits as much as some people on here may wear jeans so I wouldn't expect them to know better. I also wouldn't expect them to immediately see the worth in investing in a garment they'll hardly wear. I just hope that maybe they'll question why their closet has $2k suits, $500 shoes, and $20 jeans; or why they pride themselves on buying so as to stand apart from the standard dreck and yet accept the dreck in their casual life.

    Good jeans don't need to be expensive and they're a lot easier to figure out than formal wear.

    I understand threads can get too big. But every day I see dozens of new threads about the same topics. I'd like to see more general threads, like the Shirt Porn, Soporific Ties and Unfunded Liabilities threads. A lot of information is scattered across the forum in threads that disappear after a few days. That way, the information doesn't get better. It just gets repeated and probably gets worse, because the 'experts' are not answering the same questions anymore.

    If there were more 'expert threads' you could refer those threads to new posters. I think there's not enough cross-referring and linking on the forum at all. It isn't a web with interconnections, it's just one long thread that goes round and round.

    I agree. It's nice to have the answers you're looking for confined to a single compact location, but I don't quite understand how it's easier or harder to search for the same information versus a larger thread. Google doesn't really discriminate when I use keywords.

    But the biggest problem I see is the one you touched upon. In fact, just look at this thread. If the OP had been posted in a jeans question thread, it would have been answered in a post or two instead of gathering several pages of misinterpreted information passed off as fact.
     
  20. Who me?

    Who me? Member

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