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Watches losing popularity

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by Bradford, Jun 4, 2006.

  1. Violinist

    Violinist Well-Known Member

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    Dress vs. functional watches is apples vs. oranges. My Breitling’s are 10 times better as ‘beater’ watches than anything from Patek et al. A Breitling isn’t a good watch for formalwear and a Patek isn’t a good watch to go deep-sea diving with. Each has its purpose.

    Jon.


    Yeah but there are cool in betweens... for example, a Panerei is for more versatile (on the right man) than a Breitling, so is a Cartier Roadster for example. Unless you run with the crowd on this forum, you could get away with wearing either of those with a suit.
     
  2. Bic Pentameter

    Bic Pentameter Well-Known Member

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    Actually, the math on watches is very compelling and is certainly better than many pieces of menswear. That said, you can pick up the previously mentioned speedmaster for about $3k at full retail (more like $2k from an authorized dealer). But even at full retail that's less then $10/day in its first year. A $3,500 bespoke suit that you wear once a week comes out to about $68/use in its first year. The low end of high end ties is about $150 and wearing that every other month puts it at $25/use. In addition to being more expensive than the watch, clothes are far more fragile. Ties are also more often victims of changing tastes.

    So, I can understand that you don't get the watch thing, but I don't accept your assertion on the price/value ratio. But to each their own. Perhaps a brief and incomplete exposure to Heidegger has destroyed my mind.


    Interesting....I have been trying to justify buying a Patek for quite some time, but I am not quite there yet.

    For the past 6 years, I have lived in relative safety in Tokyo. How do security, fungability, and risk of loss play into the analysis? Do muggers still say, "Your bespoke shoes or your life?" I wouldn't hesitate to put my Carlo Franco tie, Huntsman bespoke suit, and Tony Gaziano shoes into the locker at the YMCA. Should I think twice before I put my Patek in it?

    Bic
     
  3. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but there are cool in betweens... for example, a Panerei is for more versatile (on the right man) than a Breitling, so is a Cartier Roadster for example. Unless you run with the crowd on this forum, you could get away with wearing either of those with a suit.

    Of course there are, but I was talking only about Breitling vs. Patek. I can pull off any of my watches in almost any situation.

    Jon.
     
  4. royal618

    royal618 Well-Known Member

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    How much jewellery can a man wear?

    Generally speaking, one would have cufflinks, one or two rings (if one is his wedding ring) and a watch. I feel naked without my watch I have to say.

    Incidentally, don't 'they also say' a woman looks at three things when looking at a male - his shoes, haircut and watch.
     
  5. LabelKing

    LabelKing Well-Known Member

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    In classic tradition, a man would have a wedding band, a signet ring, and a ring with a beautiful stone.

    Of course, with unmarried men, there could be certain liberties taken with rings as period photos attest. Victorian men's flamboyance were in their watch chains and fobs.
     
  6. skalogre

    skalogre Well-Known Member

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    Honestly the only diver I kind of like is the Planet Ocean... and I never do any diving. I think most Omega/Breitling and Rolexes are extremely boring, ubiquitous looking watches, especially Breitling. I've always prefered dress watches and more cleaner dials, but I realize that in the summer and in a lot of more casual situations that just isn't very practical.

    I wish there was an alternative to SS bracelets in the summer... I love wearing gator.


    Titanium, silicon, rubber, kevlar. I have trouble dealing with rubber though; a strap I had was woven kevlar which worked VERY well for me. But I also have a Bund strap which is "tropic" style - has a thin layer of rubber underneath. I really don't like its feel even if the pad is really well made and the straps themselves are rubber-less...
     
  7. Girardian

    Girardian Well-Known Member

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    I purchased a nice watch for my (much younger) brother as a graduation present from high school. He wears it but not at all times. He seems equally comfortable checking his phone for the time and has it with him at all times. I consider it to be an inelegant solution, but do enjoy seeing him wear his nice watch when he chooses to do so and am glad he has a tasteful (dressy but somewhat sporty) option available when the mood suits him.
     
  8. javyn

    javyn Well-Known Member

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    I'm almost 30 and haven't ever really worn watches. I find them uncomfortable and hard to shop for since I have small wrists. The only one I had that actually worked on me was a very thin Skagen. I misplaced it though, probably taking it off somewhere because it was uncomfortable and forgetting to pick it back up.
     
  9. norcaltransplant

    norcaltransplant Well-Known Member

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    Just for the record, at the recent NYC Styleforum dinner the tally on watches was as follows:

    Six members in attendance + one spouse:
    1) IWC Portofino S/S
    2) Glashutte Original lunar
    3) Zeno (IIRC) day/date automatic
    4) Vintage dress watch of unknown provenance
    5) Vintage alumninum pilot watch

    So... out of the six members in attedance, five were wearing automatics.
     
  10. wEstSidE

    wEstSidE Well-Known Member

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    My favorite watch of all time is the TAG Heuer Monaco. Second on my list is the Movado Museum. I like the Monaco because Steve McQueen wore it. Refined, I know.
     
  11. Violinist

    Violinist Well-Known Member

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    My favorite watch of all time is the TAG Heuer Monaco. Second on my list is the Movado Museum. I like the Monaco because Steve McQueen wore it. Refined, I know.

    Westside, I agree. The Monaco is a really cool watch. At first, I thought Cartier was the best in the world, and although their design and finish is right up there, I now look at other brands because of the movement and other factors.

    Tastes change, but it depends on the person. Now I wouldn't even consider most brands as it would be like buying Mark's Work Wearhouse or something.
     
  12. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

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    At first, I thought Cartier was the best in the world, and although their design and finish is right up there, I now look at other brands because of the movement and other factors.


    WHAT?

    Jon.
     
  13. Violinist

    Violinist Well-Known Member

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    WHAT?

    Jon.


    O get over yourself. I'm sick of haughty WIS geeks ripping on Cartier... yea we all realize most of them use ETA movements (although the new Pacha 42mm and Santos 100 Chrono use great movements), but in terms of finishing, Cartier is one of the greatest jewelry houses in the world and the finishing of their watches is of very high quality. Will it equal a Patek? Of course not. What also makes me laugh are two guys I know, whose watch collections (I will bet anything) vastly outstrips whatever you have... among their many nauseatingly expensive watches are some Cartiers (that they bought for their wife), and a few from the PC, and they all comment on the high level of finishing. My dad for example has a Breguet and a Patek, and I'd say my mom's Cartier is definately a venerable timepiece from an aesthetic point of view.
     
  14. skalogre

    skalogre Well-Known Member

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    Considering a) the Borg like efficiency of ETA in taking over other manufacturers and b) the consistency, reliability and quality of their movements I don't see that as a bad thing per se. Getting an in-house movement can be nice in principle but it does not mean you are necessarily getting something of better (or worse) quality than an ETA mass-made movement. Anyhow, yes, Cartier can be decent as watches and the ETA thing is not necessarily bad - but the biggest draw to them fwiw imho are the Cartier name, style and finish. That is my guess why you do see such "snobbery" from WIS [​IMG] Disclaimer: Just so you know where I stand, even if I had the disposable income I doubt I would buy a Cartier, a Rolex, an Omega, a Patek et.c. While each have their own cachee and "plusses" those are not things I am interested in. Probably would end up with a Glasshutte or two, some interesting tourbillion and even more ex-military watches [​IMG] Maybe even a small manufacturer's/artisan's watch if I find it interesting or it has some complication that speaks to me somehow...
     
  15. Violinist

    Violinist Well-Known Member

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    Considering a) the Borg like efficiency of ETA in taking over other manufacturers and b) the consistency, reliability and quality of their movements I don't see that as a bad thing per se. Getting an in-house movement can be nice in principle but it does not mean you are necessarily getting something of better (or worse) quality than an ETA mass-made movement.
    Anyhow, yes, Cartier can be decent as watches but the biggest draw to them fwiw imho are the Cartier name, style and finish. That is my guess why you do see such "snobbery" from WIS [​IMG]

    Disclaimer:
    Just so you know where I stand, even if I had the disposable income I doubt I would buy a Cartier, a Rolex, an Omega, a Patek et.c. While each have their own cachee and "plusses" those are not things I am interested in. Probably would end up with a Glasshutte or two, some interesting tourbillion and even more ex-military watches [​IMG]
    Maybe even a small manufacturer's/artisan's watch if I find it interesting or it has some complication that speaks to me somehow...


    Skalagore, I totally agree in a lot of ways. I should also mention that most WISs I've met have appauling personal style, so they don't really appreciate the styling of Cartier. My favourite brands include UN, Breguet, the Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece line, JLC (I'm getting a reverso grande date or GMT), Lange and GO... so I am definately not someone for buying only recognizable brands. I'll probably buy a Cartier or two because they I think their design rival anyone aesthetically, though they might lack in some of the finer points. At the end of the day, my dad's Plat. Calatrava bores the hell out of me.
     
  16. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Well-Known Member

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  17. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Well-Known Member

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    On a related issue, that of very expensive watches. It seems odd to me that the wealthy indulge this. For that kind of money, I would think one would have the financial freedom to show up at appointments whenever they damn well please.
    You're missing the point. The point of high end watches isn't to tell the time per se, but to have a work of art, of mechanical genius, to have something crafted by a skilled artisan.
     
  18. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

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    O get over yourself. I'm sick of haughty WIS geeks ripping on Cartier... yea we all realize most of them use ETA movements (although the new Pacha 42mm and Santos 100 Chrono use great movements), but in terms of finishing, Cartier is one of the greatest jewelry houses in the world and the finishing of their watches is of very high quality. Will it equal a Patek? Of course not. What also makes me laugh are two guys I know, whose watch collections (I will bet anything) vastly outstrips whatever you have... among their many nauseatingly expensive watches are some Cartiers (that they bought for their wife), and a few from the PC, and they all comment on the high level of finishing. My dad for example has a Breguet and a Patek, and I'd say my mom's Cartier is definately a venerable timepiece from an aesthetic point of view.
    Wow. Just wow. Dude, you really have no clue what you are talking about. First off your arguments are all over the place. You started with:
    At first, I thought Cartier was the best in the world, and although their design and finish is right up there, I now look at other brands because of the movement and other factors.
    Which makes no sense because finishing is only regarding how well ‘finished’ the case and movement is, nothing else. Cartier is hardly well finished. If you look at the back of a Pasha Chronograph, which uses the fantastic F. Piguet 1185 chronograph movement, you will notice that the movement is stamped with the Cartier-motif again and again. Instead of being finished with Côtes de Genève or some other form of finer finishing, they simply choose to machine stamp, hardly worth of ‘finish is right up there’. Also, none of the plates or bridges underneath are polished or finished as well as they could be. And yes, while the watch is quite well finished when it comes to the exterior case, it is not ‘up there’ with PP, AP, JLC, just to name a few. You somehow moved into movements, which is a completely different subject, for the movement used in a watch is not a detrimental part of the finishing of the case or movement. There are watches from companies like IWC that take basic ETA / Valjoux movements and finish them off to higher-than-Patek standards (well, the grand complication models, anyways) also, you should see what UN (and I don’t like them, nothing to do with the watches, it’s a few problems I had with their office here in Boca) can do with basic ETA movements. Also, you do realize that from a quality point of view (and apparently you think that quality equals design) for the same price there are better watches out there than Cartier, right? Oh, and since you have no idea regarding my watch collection or my knowledge regarding horology, and you don’t really seem to have any, how can you possibly judge? I rather be a ‘geek’ as you call it and know what I’m talking about than be an ignoramus, full of hot air that hasn’t got a clue. This is why I basically stopped posting on watch forums, because every day some person would come and post criticize regarding things they did not understand. Jon. BTW: my personal style is quite good, thank you.
     
  19. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

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    You're missing the point. The point of high end watches isn't to tell the time per se, but to have a work of art, of mechanical genius, to have something crafted by a skilled artisan.

    Oftentimes, yes. Frankly I will use my watches to tell time, but when I am bored I will look at them (i.e. which ever one is gracing my wrist at that moment in time) and just look at the way it's made, designed, and finished. My watches with complications tend not to be used for their intended purposes, i.e. I don't time anything specific with a Chronograph; rather I just play around with it. This is the reason why they make clear case backs / skeletonized backs, simply for the pure beauty of it.

    Jon.
     
  20. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

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    Considering a) the Borg like efficiency of ETA in taking over other manufacturers and b) the consistency, reliability and quality of their movements I don't see that as a bad thing per se. Getting an in-house movement can be nice in principle but it does not mean you are necessarily getting something of better (or worse) quality than an ETA mass-made movement.
    Anyhow, yes, Cartier can be decent as watches and the ETA thing is not necessarily bad - but the biggest draw to them fwiw imho are the Cartier name, style and finish. That is my guess why you do see such "snobbery" from WIS [​IMG]

    Disclaimer:
    Just so you know where I stand, even if I had the disposable income I doubt I would buy a Cartier, a Rolex, an Omega, a Patek et.c. While each have their own cachee and "plusses" those are not things I am interested in. Probably would end up with a Glasshutte or two, some interesting tourbillion and even more ex-military watches [​IMG]
    Maybe even a small manufacturer's/artisan's watch if I find it interesting or it has some complication that speaks to me somehow...


    What do you mean? Because the reason ETA's are used is because they are inexpensive and mass-produced. From a business standpoint, a company like Cartier would be smart to use ETA movements since they are reliable, can take a beating and most people who buy Cartier watches do not do so for the movements, they can skimp on finishing, because they figure that most customers won't care. And they are right; they could care less. My point however is that Cartier is not up to the same standards as other companies in the same price range.

    Also, great as the watch movements from F. Piguet may be, the company is owned by Swatch just as ETA is. But, they are designed and made in a completely different manner, and thus come out completely differently.

    Jon.
     

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