1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Warning for Ebay and Paypal policy on authenticity scams

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by letmefly, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. letmefly

    letmefly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    242
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    This is somewhat of a long story but here it goes. I bought a Hermes belt (with what turned out to be fake documentation) from a UK seller a while back and upon receiving it immediately recognized it as a fake. Since I consider this hassle with fakes on ebay a plague I decided to make a stand and instead of sending the item back to the seller for a cashback ("hey I tried to scam you and failed so how about you spend time and money on sending the item back and lets call it even") I opened a claim with Paypal and followed their procedure regarding fakes.

    Unfortunately this meant the trouble of going to the Hermes store and having the item shipped to Paris but what the hell - right should be right. It also takes at least three months which I checked with Paypal and they said this was fine. They will shut the case down meanwhile but once I get the proper documentation I use that to appeal and get my money back. I was quite surprised by the fact that the case during this time will look like it was decided to the scammers advantage and that he might withdraw the money meanwhile. "No worries" said Paypal, "even if he would withdraw the money you will get it from us (because of our buyer protection policy) and then it will be our (paypals) problem of getting the money from the scammer". Fine.

    After some months passes I get the (very nice actually) certificate from Hermes Paris stating that the belt indeed is fake and talk yet again with Paypal. They tell me how to upload the document so that the can open the appeal which is done during the call and the appeal is finally open. The promised 72 hours passes but still no reply. I give a call to Paypal and the make an additional note regarding the document in question to make certain things get done in the correct manner. A few more days passes and when I log into Paypal I notice that they have decided the case against me as the document was not produced within their original time frame. Amazing.

    I guess we've all known that Ebay and Paypal don't really care about fakes being sold but I guess now it is offical. Even if you go to a store and follow their procedure to produce the information Paypal requires they will still side with the seller of the fake item.
     
  2. letmefly

    letmefly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    242
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Had the final chat with PayPal / Ebay on this matter now. It seems that the reason I lost the case is that I did not produce the proof from Hermes that the belt was a fake within TEN (10) days of opening the case. Rather odd since I've had several phone calls with them discussing the case since then and they've been asking me to get back as soon as I have the proof and appeal...

    I was "lucky" enough to live next to an Hermes store but even so it would not be possible to produce the proof within the 10 day limit as the stores themselves are not authorized to state authenticity thus it has to be sent to Paris (taking at least 2-3 months). This means that the buyer protection on Ebay/PayPal does not apply for Hermes products. I guess noone needs to be told not to buy this stuff from ebay in the first place but now you have twice the reason.

    The irony of the whole thing is that ebay claims to be hard on fakes while their own policies actually promotes it. How many live close enough to stores so that they can get proof on official paper within 10 days of opening the claim?
     
  3. taxgenius

    taxgenius Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,745
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    That's a sick story.
     
  4. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,417
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Location:
    All of time and space, everything that ever was or
    Doesn't surprise me at all. PayPal reps are some of the worse I have ever had to deal with.
     
  5. masernaut

    masernaut Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    422
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    For everyone's knowledge, who is this seller so we can avoid them? I'm sorry to hear about your trouble.
     
  6. jrd617

    jrd617 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,544
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Should have gotten them to promise in writing.

    Link to the eBay seller?
     
  7. letmefly

    letmefly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    242
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Considering he doesn't seem to sell them anymore and more than 99 percent (yes) of the hermes belts on ebay are fake I don't really see the point of outing his name. Then again, why not:
    thomasross04

    Since I wasted so much time already I'm considering my options to proceed currently. There's no point of pushing it in the US however the European Union might have an issue with it as lot of the companies that are being ripped off are based here. They should have an issue with this policy from ebay/paypal.

    Regarding getting the policy in writing: I (way earlier) actually asked for the transcripts / notes from the case but not surprisingly they don't give them out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  8. othertravel

    othertravel Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,417
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Sorry it didn't work out for you. That being said, thanks for sharing the story.
     
  9. A Guy from Shanghai

    A Guy from Shanghai Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,545
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2007
    Location:
    USA
    Sorry to hear the sad story. If you paid with CC, you should be able to charge it back.
     
  10. md2010

    md2010 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,894
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Location:
    Sydney
    

    I would'v been happy with seller's offer getting the money back + original shipping. Why not take the easy way ... why try to take the hard way ??
    And why you were buying Hermes belt at the first place ?!!!
    You have learnt a very important lesson my friend .... in a hard way .
     
  11. jrd617

    jrd617 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,544
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
  12. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,417
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Location:
    All of time and space, everything that ever was or
    Sounds like a quality seller.
     
  13. MikeDT

    MikeDT Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,276
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Location:
    China, Mongolia and UK
    What's the moral of this story? Don't buy Hermes from Ebay, in future buy from a Hermes store?
     
  14. Superfluous

    Superfluous Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,058
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Location:
    Dallas
    Not sure why you'd buy something like Hermes on ebay to begin with... do you like to play with fire?
     
  15. Dranakin

    Dranakin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    67
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    They don't care, as long as they get their fee revenue.
     
  16. VinnyMac

    VinnyMac Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,868
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    LOL! This is hilarious...didn't even have the decency to use lube on OP.
     
  17. letmefly

    letmefly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    242
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    In order to reply to some of the questions:

    Since this was regarding an Hermes item and the forum is what it is I was expecting some comments there thus no worries. I needed a new strap for my Quentin belt (would never wear the "H" belts myself) and figure I'd grab this one to replace it. I know there are a lot of Hermes fakes on ebay but wasn't aware of that they were faking receipts now as well. Also, I thought I was protected since I used Paypal. Big mistake indeed.

    Regarding the seller. All the negatives he had before me was for Calvin Klein underwear. I own a pair of the model myself and they feel cheapish and could easily be mistaken for fakes. The model feel way cheaper than regular Calvins. The seller also had 900+ positives or so.

    Why not take the easy road and put in a lot of work to assist the person who just tried to scam me? Had I known Paypal was systematically supporting scammers I would obviously have acted differently but at the time I did not know that was the case. Hindsight is always 20/20...
     
  18. letmefly

    letmefly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    242
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    
    Actually, I thought the moral of the story was to never state anything as a fake when you open a case with Paypal as it isn't possible to win it (unless you personally know a SA who can state the goods as fake within the ten day timeline). Even though Hermes probably have the highest fake percentage on ebay this does apply to all premium brands.
     
  19. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,417
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Location:
    All of time and space, everything that ever was or
    Seriously, the PayPal CS reps and everyone working there who make these types of decisions are idiots. I once had a case decided against me where the buyer admitted to me over Ebay's messaging service that he gave me the wrong address and it was his fault the item was "lost." Guy still filed a claim and they refunded his money out of my account. Took me months of phone calls to get it sorted out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
  20. kloss

    kloss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    225
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    I read online that the reason that PayPal now requires claimants to destroy counterfeit items is that a few designers sued PayPal over it. (Apparently they used to require that the claimant send the counterfeit goods back to the seller.) So if you can find out more info about the lawsuit, you can use that as leverage against PayPal CS. Threaten to make a big fuss about it to Hermes and all the other designers if you don't get your refund, get your refund (hopefully), and then make a big fuss about it anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by