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W. W. Chan dinner suit commission

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Beardman, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. Despos

    Despos Well-Known Member

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    Vertically along the center back seam?
     
  2. Beardman

    Beardman Member

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    I don't remember. I'll look when I get home and let you know.
     
  3. ThinkDerm

    ThinkDerm Well-Known Member

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    Looking forward to hearing updates!
     
  4. Beardman

    Beardman Member

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  5. Beardman

    Beardman Member

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  6. Beardman

    Beardman Member

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    Nothing to report until July 10, when I see WW Chan in New York to place my order. So far, the dinner suit fabrics I'm considering are Scabal Festival 852054, a midnight blue barathea which I've seen, and these, which I've only heard about and don't know much about:

    H. Lesser midnight blue barathea in the No. 312 Formal Wear line
    Thos Fisher Cape Breeze (70% 8 oz Super 100 + 30% kid mohair) midnight blue
    Dugdale Brothers 11 oz midnight blue

    Any suggestions or insight on these or other fabric choices? I usually go into my meetings with Chan well-briefed on fabrics rather than sit and only then begin to pore over books, even though Patrick and his assistants are usually quite willing to explore fabrics with me. (They will sometimes gently try to offer alternatives to my requests -- for example, once I wanted Golden Bale and Patrick said it was hard to get in HK from his distributor and would result in a very long wait. I took their advice in that instance.)

    BTW, I'm also doing a navy herringbone business suit. Since I have easy access to the Scabal online catalogue, I'm looking at Riverside 751905, and Royal 702635, 702636 and 702637.
    The 702636 is a vibrant dark blue, the others are all dark navy. Somewhere once I was told that the narrower the herringbone, the more refined the look. Do you all agree? Any other suggestions for fabric choices from other houses? (Super 120 and below, please. I wear these suits for work, travel extensively, and am not a Russian kleptocrat, so I can't replace garments every few months.) [​IMG]
     
  7. Despos

    Despos Well-Known Member

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    The center back seam of the lining is an open pleat. The pleat edge shifts and distorts from wear, usually opens due to expanding from movement. Many tailors don't resize the pleat after reducing a jacket and it can look sloppy but it's normal to look loose. It can be resized if necessary.
     
  8. Beardman

    Beardman Member

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    Here's an update. I finally sat with Patrick yesterday in New York. We settled on:

    • Scabal Festival 852054 midnight blue barathea at 280 grams (I was considering others, too, but they all were heavier cloths, and I will always be indoors in civilized countries with interior climate control, and I may even be forced to step onto the dance floor once or thrice)
    • Peaked lapels in black grosgrain, single button, double vents (I put my hands in my pockets), besom pockets with grosgrain piping, purple lining (as befitting my royal ego), inside breast/pen/phone pockets, grosgrain covered sleeve and front buttons
    • Uncuffed trousers with black grosprain stripe, side tabs (no loops), side pockets on the seam, normal rear pockets (usable handkerchief and my *$#!@ wallet)
    • U-shaped waistcoat, black grosgrain shawl lapels, three buttons, inside lining same purple, outside lining in back matches midnight blue

    I also ordered an ordinary suit in a nice, small, navy herringbone: Scabal Triple A 752178, which is a 320 g Super 120 withs 2% cashmere. I've had a couple of suits before in this range and they seem to drape and wear well. I came in thinking something from Scabal's Riverside book, but Patrick talked me into this instead.

    I should have both sometime in October.
     
  9. Beardman

    Beardman Member

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    Oh, and the bottom front of the waistcoat is finished in points, which Patrick and I both think is slimming.
     
  10. Despos

    Despos Well-Known Member

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    Would not get shawl lapels on the vest. Just don't.
     
  11. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Well-Known Member

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    What????
     
  12. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Well-Known Member

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    Sounds nice. Well done.

    I have, however, used a simulation of Tag Cloud technology to nit-pick the things that I do not like.

    But, of course, I will not be wearing your dinner suit.
     
  13. comrade

    comrade Well-Known Member

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    Plain silk waistcoat (vest) in same color as the suit.
    There should be lapels on it.
    I favor flap pockets and notch lapels( a sin around here)
     
  14. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Well-Known Member

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    Please elaborate, B.
     
  15. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Well-Known Member

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    1. I don't like matching the facing on the hip pockets of the jacket or anywhere on the vest except the buttons.

    2. I don't think that you need to or should carry things in the back pockets of semi-formal pants, meaning you do not need the back pockets at all.

    3. Side tabs are not needed unless pants are worn without suspenders, and to do so is an unfortunate decision guaranteeing a prom-night-ish break on the shoes.

    4. I'm not a fan of groovy linings for a standard dinner suit. Someone will say, "Oh, but no one else will see it." Yeah, right. I'm not a fan of groovy linings altogether, actually.

    These aren't even nitpicks, really. Just sayin' what I wouldn't do. There is no implication that your fellow Beardman should change any of his choices.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  16. Beardman

    Beardman Member

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    Gee, I thought the consensus was no flaps on pockets. OTR tuxes have flaps because it's cheaper to reuse the lounge suit pattern. But no flaps is more elegant and more traditional, no?

    Also, I tend to get contrasting linings in jackets -- generally no one sees them but me, and I like little secrets like that. (And, who knows, I may do a Vegas act after I retire. I do sing pretty well in the shower... :)

    Also, side tabs make sense to me in non-belted trousers. I do tend to fluctuate a bit in weight. I can cinch a belt when needed, but I don't want my formal trousers ballooning in the waist when my perpetual diet happens to be working well, and that's what would happen when loose pants hang from braces, I imagine.

    Finally, what's wrong with grosgrain lapels on the vest, Despos? Isn't it classically done that way?
     
  17. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Well-Known Member

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    Yes, do besom pockets on the hips. I just think that gilding the lily with grosgrain is a bit much. As black tie crimes go, it's pretty minor, though.


    I hope that you don't button your jacket over that vest. If you don't, people will see the lining at some point.

    Is it a big deal? Absolutely not...purple, magenta, canary yellow, or even a tapestry of unicorns copulating have all been done and also exhibiting to the world as owners twirl on their heels to the cover band playing Brick House ("Mighty mighty, just lettin' it all hang out!")


    If you cinch your waist, your suspenders do not do their job. If you lose so much weight that your pants need cinching, but the cinching does not impede the role of the suspenders, then that is a good time to get your pants altered.


    Vests have been done in every possible way. Of those ways, which do you think is most discreet?

    Not that discretion is a very valued commodity, these days.

    Don't worry. Your dinner suit sounds great. Let me introduce a new catch phrase to explain:

    Fine...just not mine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  18. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, B. I just wanted to ensure I was reading you correctly.

    My dinner suit has been ruined for me by StyFo. Now I can see only its flaws. I cannot, however, justify replacing it with a better version given that I am certain to wear it only once per year. I guess I will have to live vicariously...
     
  19. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Well-Known Member

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    Don't let finicky people ruin your fun.
     
  20. Beardman

    Beardman Member

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    Thought I'd share this bit of wisdom from blacktieguide.com, for what it's worth:

    "The body is constructed from the same material as the dinner jacket or is made entirely from silk to match the jacket's facings. Also unique to the evening waistcoat are its shawl-style revers (lapels) which are usually self-faced when the body is silk or match the jacket lapels when the body is wool. Like the waistcoat’s bottom, the revers’ lower edges can be square cut or rounded."

    Seems to agree with me regarding the lapels on the vest. Although, I must say -- blacktieguide.com does note that the English see grosgrain piping on the hip pockets "as a sign of hired clothes."

    On the other hand, I'm not English, just an Anglophile, so maybe I'll get a pass. (Yanks are exempt from most rules, since our accents are so barbaric.)
     

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