1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Vitale Barberis Cahttp://www.vitalebarberiscnonico

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Millerp, Mar 18, 2005.

  1. Millerp

    Millerp Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    615
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    My local tailor has swatch books of Super 120s wool and cashmere from an Italian woolen mill called Vitale Barberis Canonico. The material has a fine hand and seems to be of good quality. I looked the mill up on Google. http://www.vitalebarberiscanonico.it/ The brand seems legitimate, but I've never heard of it. My tailor said their products are equal to Scabal or Zegna. Just wondering if any forum members know of this mill or have had any items of clothing made from this company's cloth. I'm considering getting some trousers made from this cloth. Thanks
     
  2. lisapop

    lisapop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    534
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Actually, not to break your heart, but it's an inferior cloth, as is much of the over-hyped cloth from Italy (e.g. Loro Piana), and elsewhere.  Reason being that the cloth is not 4 ply, which is the benchmark for quality.  It is 3 ply.  4 ply cloth is comprised of 2 fibers in length and 2 fibers in width.  3 ply cloth is comprised of 2 fibers in length and just 1 fiber in width, resulting in cloth that tends to wrinkle and crumple.  It's a way of cutting corners and charging a lot of money. I believe that's called progess.

    This brand is not to be confused with Carlo Barbera, which is among the finest cloth, distributed by Lesser in the UK.  I proudly own several garments made from the superb Barbera range.  
    Grayson
     
  3. MilanoStyle

    MilanoStyle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,674
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    This is interesting, how can I tell if a fabric is x Ply, where x is integer?
     
  4. lisapop

    lisapop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    534
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    When you examine a sample of cloth, you can try to untwist the fibers. If there are 2 fibers twisted together, they'll untwist, but if there is just 1 fiber, it, of course, will not untwist.
    Grayson
     
  5. Carlo

    Carlo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,027
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2003
    FWIW - Barbera and Barberis are priced differently as well. Of the BIG valley mills in Biella I think VB makes some of the nicer fabrics but they are a totally different critter than what Carlo Barbera makes.


    Pricewise a 120's from Carlo Barbera is 2.5 times what it would be from VB or the other mills that due large scale production. Carlo Barbera only produces about 10-15% of what the others do each year and the Who's Who list in Italy buys up their best stuff. SHould you decide to set reason aside and make a suit or trousers from pure cashmere, Barbera's worsted cashmere is very, very good stuff and doesn't abrade like cheaper ones.

    Note - when I say that CB is far more expensive I am not suggesting that they are overpriced in the slightest. They are worth every penny.

    Don't confuse Viale Barberis or Carlo Barbera with Joseph Barbera. Joseph Barbera was the bespoke tailor who dressed such luminaries as Scooby Doo, Yogi Bear, George Jetson, Magilla Gorilla and Fred Flintstone along with his alterations guy, William Hanna.
     
  6. Stu

    Stu Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,351
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Location:
    Princeton
    Actually I was thinking about having Chan make me a summer beige suit of VB 130s. Are you telling me not to bother?
     
  7. lisapop

    lisapop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    534
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Actually, the Carlo Barbera range of cloth for Lesser I've used is lambswool, which has advantages over cashmere: It has a softness that closely approximates that of cashmere (due to the lanolin content), yet given it's not cashmere, it will not stretch over time as cashmere tends to do. Several people have felt my Barbera lambswool jackets and have purred, "Oooh, cashmere".
    Grayson
     
  8. dah328

    dah328 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,603
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    My experience is considerably less broad and more pedestrian than Grayson's, and I'm sure his evaluation of Vitale Barberis relative to Carlo Barbera is accurate.  That said, I have several items of clothing made from Vitale Barberis 130's that I'm quite happy with relative to my other clothes (Loro Piana, mid-range RTW, etc).  At its price point, I don't think Vitale Barberis is a bad choice.

    Not to hijack the thread or anything (well, maybe a little), but it would be interesting to see an assessment of cloths at different price points.  The same has been done for RTW suits, shirts, and shoes, but seldom is cloth discussed in the same way.

    dan
     
  9. Millerp

    Millerp Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    615
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Thank you all. I knew forum members
    would likely have an answer to my question.

    Mr Grayson - My tailor also compared the cloth
    to that of Loro Piana. He said he could make me a pair
    of trousers of VB Super 120's for $275. Am I being
    taken?

    Always appreciate your knowledge.
     
  10. lisapop

    lisapop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    534
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    With the wide array of cloth available to you, you can do better. Check out the better English cloth.
    Grayson
     
  11. lisapop

    lisapop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    534
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    $275 is a very reasonable price for custom trousers, at a time when some high-end brands get that price and more for ready-made trousers, so I don't think you're being taken advantage of. I just happen to have a preference for English cloth, which, dollar for dollar, I feel represents a better long-term value and offers a higher degree of comfort and durability. There's an abundance of quality cloth out there and so you needn't get locked into one kind. Just my $.02
    Grayson
     
  12. lisapop

    lisapop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    534
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
  13. Millerp

    Millerp Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    615
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Mr. Grayson - thanks.

    I too like English cloths. I have two sport coats
    made with H&S cloth and they wear beautifully.

    I too would like to see a discussion of cloths.
     
  14. BlvdDandy

    BlvdDandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    226
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I started a thread on a similar topic a little while back. I collected the names of all the fabric manufacturers (and sellers) I could find on the forum, and then asked for input. What follows is the graded list. It should be noted that Teir 3 doesn't mean bad, just not as good as Teirs 1 and 2. The cloth within each teir is listed randomly, although Teir 3 is roughly ordered by quality. Again, all of this is based on feedback I got from other threads, so please feel free to move stuff around and add prices.

    Teir 1:
    Moxon Huddersfield
    Dormuiel
    Scabal
    H. Lessor
    Holland & Sherry

    Teir 2:
    Carlo Barbera
    Guabello
    JJ Minnis
    Fox Brothers
    Harrisons
    Charles Clayton
    Bower Roebuck

    Teir 3:
    Vitale Barberis Canonico
    Reda
    Piacenza
    Policarpo
    Zegna
    Cerruti
    Wain Shiell
    Reid & Taylor
    Smiths
    Loro Piana
    Taylor & Lodge
    William Halstead
     
  15. lisapop

    lisapop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    534
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
  16. Millerp

    Millerp Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    615
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Thanks BlvdDandy. I should just visit this forum more often [​IMG]
     
  17. lisapop

    lisapop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    534
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Holland & Sherry is among my favorites.  You can never go wrong with H&S.  Their Donegal Tweed cloth is outstanding and I like their Snowy River range, too, which, refreshingly, avoids the Superfine excess.
    Grayson
     
  18. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    I would move up Smiths and Harrisons, definitely. Minnis ... probably. Dormeuil and Scabal probably belong in a different category. Not that they're not good, but they specialize in luxury cloth, and their "ordinary" stuff (to the extent that they have any) costs more than comparable or better stuff from other mills.
     
  19. RJman

    RJman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,647
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Location:
    In the not too distant future
    Is Wain Shiell really third-tier?
     
  20. retronotmetro

    retronotmetro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,645
    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Depends on whether you want to spend several hundred dollars more to upgrade the cloth. If not, then get the VBC. I do. I forget how much WW Chan charges for cloth from any of the English mills, but remember some of them being more than double the price of VBC when it is on special.

    There is a difference between "not top of the line" and "garbage." VBC is not top of the line, but it isn't garbage.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by