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Vinyl?

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by Quirk, Jul 6, 2006.

  1. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Well-Known Member

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    At the monastery in Rangoon it was "We Are The World" as performed in Burmese and played over loudspeakers somewhere out there in the jungle. Every night. Over. And over.

    Believe me, I sympathize . . . "All that she wants is another baby, she's gone tomorrow but all that she wants in another baby . . . "

    And don't even get me started on "Kumbaya."
     
  2. j

    j Well-Known Member

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    Believe me, I sympathize . . . "All that she wants is another baby, she's gone tomorrow but all that she wants in another baby . . . "

    And don't even get me started on "Kumbaya."

    Do they let you use an Ipod at a sesshin?

    Perhaps the Creative Zen would be more appropriate.
     
  3. Margaret

    Margaret Well-Known Member

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    If you are just getting into classical, there is nothing like vinyl; it sounds better, and most people will give you their entire collection if you move it yourself.

    I want to develop a selection of operatic vocals. Though I'm not much for 'opera' as an art form, so I'm just looking for recital recordings, operatic selections and the like. I should start looking for stuff on craigslist.
     
  4. johnapril

    johnapril Well-Known Member

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    Believe me, I sympathize . . . "All that she wants is another baby, she's gone tomorrow but all that she wants in another baby . . . "

    And don't even get me started on "Kumbaya."


    And this, as heard in 1991, pouring from the open window of the neighboring apartment column, over and over:

    When I think about you I touch myself
    I don´t want anybody else
    Oh no, oh no, oh no
    I want you
    I don´t want anybody else
    And when I think about you I touch myself
    Ooh, oooh, oooooh, aaaaaah
     
  5. Vintage Gent

    Vintage Gent Well-Known Member

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    Some stuff I treasure--like the Tommy Hoehn albums from the 70s--still aren't available on cold, heartless digital, so I keep a bit of vinyl in my collection.
     
  6. rdawson808

    rdawson808 Well-Known Member

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    Laptops and digitized audio files are totally the best for DJing. Just bring one thing and you're set. There's even automated mixing and beatmatching software that can make DJing a lot easier.


    And that would prove that you're not much of a DJ if you need beatmixing software. I haven't been to a club in ages, but there is just still something pure about vinyl.

    My vinyl is primarily New Order, 808state, or Bjork. Stuff that's not coming out (or won't be reissued) on vinyl. I'll never get rid of the New Order stuff. It's too precious.

    bob
     
  7. Brian SD

    Brian SD Well-Known Member

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    More or less... It's still not easy by any means. It's just less "manual." The truth is that some of the best DJs use the beatmatching software. There's really only so much music that you can mix with two turntables... vs. infinite channels of MP3s and samples on the computer.

    I do prefer turntables over the computer though. Just a tradition thing, I suppose.
     
  8. LabelKing

    LabelKing Well-Known Member

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    At the monastery in Rangoon it was "We Are The World" as performed in Burmese and played over loudspeakers somewhere out there in the jungle. Every night. Over. And over.
    Were they trying you drive out everyone a la Noreiga?
     
  9. mcflip

    mcflip Member

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    Philly
    I have like 8-900 LPs, 400 7"s and maybe 50 10"s (not to mention a smattering of weird, novelty sized records)

    I still prefer them to CDs. They just seem more substantial and precious, and there's something about having to be an active participant in listening to a record (finding it, putting it on the platter, cueing it up, flipping it, as opposed to bringing up a playlist)

    The new trend in vinyl is including coupons for free MP3 downloads, which is awesome, so I can DL the stuff to listen to in my car.
     
  10. Stax

    Stax Well-Known Member

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    I have about 400 and lately its all I buy. In fact, I bought a new turntable a few months ago.
     
  11. aarghh

    aarghh Well-Known Member

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    San Jose, CA
    I just acquired ten new LP sets at the local library sale - they were sitting in a box ignored by most. Time-Life sets of Casals and Segovia, Fidelio with Klemperer, Aida; La Boheme; Tristan and Isolde; some Heifetz.

    50 cents each...

    So while you're welcome to your iPods, I keep my turntable, thank you very much.[​IMG]
     
  12. briancl

    briancl Well-Known Member

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    And that would prove that you're not much of a DJ if you need beatmixing software. I haven't been to a club in ages, but there is just still something pure about vinyl.

    A good number of DJ's today use Ableton Live to 'perform live' instead of 'mix live'. It is pretty powerful software, and once you warp a song or individual parts of a song, it will automatically be matched based on whatever your snap preference is, whether it be one beat, bar, 2 bars, etc. In interviews, DJ's like Richie Hawtin (who has poineered bringing additional technology to live performances in the early 90's) say its time for some DJ's to move away from traditional means and, instead of spending a lot of time beatmatching, spend time adding new elements and focusing on the experience.

    When I was at this year's DEMF/Movement, I can say that 100% of the DJ's I went to see used some kind of software, either entireley Ableton (no beatmatching) or a mix of Ableton or Serato Scratch Live (some beatmatching).

    That said, for amatuers and aspiring DJ's, the first skill they need to learn is beatmatching and song structure. Of course, without this, they wouldn't even be able to use the tools that do it for you. That's just like anything else. You must first master the fundamentals before you can become and expert.

    Like I said upthread, I use software for playing MP3s on my computer through time coded vinyl, so I'm manipulating vinyl in order to beatmatch and using a hardware mixer, still. I haven't yet integrated Ableton in to my setup; however, I have recorded a CD with the application just to learn it and see what it's all about. It's quite powerful.
     
  13. sonick

    sonick Well-Known Member

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    My dad has a handful of LPs, and I've started buying them myself, but mostly modern releases, usually if its a different master, or if its on 180g vinyl, in hopes of getting an improvement on SQ from CD (I have the new Flaming Lips' album in 180g on order from my local record shoppe, and am planning on picking up the Steve Hoffman mastered copy of Stadium Arcadium on 180g vinyl).

    Briancl: Interesting, I just bought a M-Audio Groovelab kit mainly for the M-audio Transit USB sound card, but I read it comes with a 'lite' version of Ableton Live, definitely interested in playing around with it when I get it.

    Are there any websites etc. that I can read up on the 'Fundamentals' you speak of?
     
  14. Manny Calavera

    Manny Calavera Well-Known Member

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    A good number of DJ's today use Ableton Live to 'perform live' instead of 'mix live'. It is pretty powerful software, and once you warp a song or individual parts of a song, it will automatically be matched based on whatever your snap preference is, whether it be one beat, bar, 2 bars, etc. In interviews, DJ's like Richie Hawtin (who has poineered bringing additional technology to live performances in the early 90's) say its time for some DJ's to move away from traditional means and, instead of spending a lot of time beatmatching, spend time adding new elements and focusing on the experience.

    When I was at this year's DEMF/Movement, I can say that 100% of the DJ's I went to see used some kind of software, either entireley Ableton (no beatmatching) or a mix of Ableton or Serato Scratch Live (some beatmatching).

    That said, for amatuers and aspiring DJ's, the first skill they need to learn is beatmatching and song structure. Of course, without this, they wouldn't even be able to use the tools that do it for you. That's just like anything else. You must first master the fundamentals before you can become and expert.

    Like I said upthread, I use software for playing MP3s on my computer through time coded vinyl, so I'm manipulating vinyl in order to beatmatch and using a hardware mixer, still. I haven't yet integrated Ableton in to my setup; however, I have recorded a CD with the application just to learn it and see what it's all about. It's quite powerful.


    I use Ableton for recording and Logic Pro for producing my recorded nonsense, however I still say it's a cop-out to use it during a set. Ableton is way to powerful a tool.
     
  15. aportnoy

    aportnoy Well-Known Member

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    Still have over 1000 albums and a fully operational turntable. I will never give up my vinyl.
     
  16. briancl

    briancl Well-Known Member

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    I still say it's a cop-out to use it during a set. Ableton is way to powerful a tool.

    If you are using Ableton to just mix two tracks together, absolutely; however, some people are doing really amazing stuff in real time with Ableton... very cutting edge.

    Matthew Dear (as Audion) puts together some incredibly impressive stuff live using a Laptop w/ Ableton, a hardware mixer, and 1 turntable. At DEMF, his hour long set was probably the most intense, exciting, and dynamic pieces of music performed live that I've been fortunate enough to experience.

    If you're curious.. check youtube or google video for "enferno" or just "ableton live" and you'll see some pretty cool stuff. Although Enferno isn't really my thing, he does showcase the application's flexibility quite well.
     
  17. stach

    stach Well-Known Member

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    I read that somebody transfered wax cylinders from the 1870's to cd recently.
     
  18. SGladwell

    SGladwell Well-Known Member

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    I have a cheap vacuum cleaner and a reasonably good belt-driven 'table with a top-notch moving-coil cartridge and some tweako things like an expensive mat. Have had it for some years. The fact that I cannot off the top of my head remember the brand names of any of those components is a good indicator of the last time I used it...

    All of my vinyl collection (my parents' vinyl collection and a few records I'd picked up since then, something around 1200 records broken down about 50% 60s and 70s pop/rock, 30% chamber music, and 18% orchestral music, and 2% "alternative"/"indie" or hip-hop) was "ripped" into Apple Lossless for home use by a Boston-area high end audio dealer within three months of Apple's incorporation of that format into iTunes. (I keep all of my music on a Firewire drive connected to an Intel Mac mini in my living room, and use AirTunes to listen to my collection around the house.) Their vinyl rig (the name Boulder sticks in my head for some reason) was well into the five figures if not even perhaps six figures, and I think I paid about $5 per record for cleaning and "ripping." I'm pretty sure it was a huge pain for them, which is why I'm not revealing their name. Records I've bought since then (this town has lots of opportunity to buy records) were "ripped" at home in a similar manner, using a 20-bit Sony portable analog-to-digital converter I bought cheap from a band that had broken up. (I resold the DAT drive that came with it, as I had no use for it.)

    True, sometimes an LP (especially a direct-to-disk recording or a painstakingly remastered audiophile nugget) will sound better than the CD version of same. However, the difference is only apparent in direct comparison with records that have been relentlessly babied. But in general the only way someone can think an LP "sounds better" than a CD of the same recording is if they have shitty speakers. Also in general vinyl's sins are better covered up in large orchestral works than in solo works. Ever hear a solo bassoon piece on vinyl? Nothing at all like the real thing. The massive dynamic compression and truncated frequency response of vinyl is glaringly obvious if one has speakers with some balls and an interest in listening to music at live-performance volume levels.

    With good speakers*, enough power, and good room treatment, however, a CD can sound startlingly close to the real thing.

    *To reproduce music, you need to be able to move air effortlessly. Examples of good speakers include the big Genelec and ATC studio monitors with 12"+ woofers for midbass and then subwoofers underneath, the Sound Lab A-1 electrostats, Acapella horns with separate subwoofers underneath, Quad ESL-63's with Gradient dipole subs, B&W N801D's, and big-bore like that. Not the typical "bookshelf" or "minitower" speaker consisting of a fist-sized "woofer" and a tweeter mounted flat on the baffle most so-called audiophiles end up with.
     
  19. Mr. Checks

    Mr. Checks Well-Known Member

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    I have a cheap vacuum cleaner and a reasonably good belt-driven 'table with a top-notch moving-coil cartridge and some tweako things like an expensive mat. Have had it for some years. The fact that I cannot off the top of my head remember the brand names of any of those components is a good indicator of the last time I used it...

    All of my vinyl collection (my parents' vinyl collection and a few records I'd picked up since then, something around 1200 records broken down about 50% 60s and 70s pop/rock, 30% chamber music, and 18% orchestral music, and 2% "alternative"/"indie" or hip-hop) was "ripped" into Apple Lossless for home use by a Boston-area high end audio dealer within three months of Apple's incorporation of that format into iTunes. (I keep all of my music on a Firewire drive connected to an Intel Mac mini in my living room, and use AirTunes to listen to my collection around the house.) Their vinyl rig (the name Boulder sticks in my head for some reason) was well into the five figures if not even perhaps six figures, and I think I paid about $5 per record for cleaning and "ripping." I'm pretty sure it was a huge pain for them, which is why I'm not revealing their name. Records I've bought since then (this town has lots of opportunity to buy records) were "ripped" at home in a similar manner, using a 20-bit Sony portable analog-to-digital converter I bought cheap from a band that had broken up. (I resold the DAT drive that came with it, as I had no use for it.)

    True, sometimes an LP (especially a direct-to-disk recording or a painstakingly remastered audiophile nugget) will sound better than the CD version of same. However, the difference is only apparent in direct comparison with records that have been relentlessly babied. But in general the only way someone can think an LP "sounds better" than a CD of the same recording is if they have shitty speakers. Also in general vinyl's sins are better covered up in large orchestral works than in solo works. Ever hear a solo bassoon piece on vinyl? Nothing at all like the real thing. The massive dynamic compression and truncated frequency response of vinyl is glaringly obvious if one has speakers with some balls and an interest in listening to music at live-performance volume levels.

    With good speakers*, enough power, and good room treatment, however, a CD can sound startlingly close to the real thing.

    *To reproduce music, you need to be able to move air effortlessly. Examples of good speakers include the big Genelec and ATC studio monitors with 12"+ woofers for midbass and then subwoofers underneath, the Sound Lab A-1 electrostats, Acapella horns with separate subwoofers underneath, Quad ESL-63's with Gradient dipole subs, B&W N801D's, and big-bore like that. Not the typical "bookshelf" or "minitower" speaker consisting of a fist-sized "woofer" and a tweeter mounted flat on the baffle most so-called audiophiles end up with.


    You don't need statistics, and you don't need measuring equipment, you don't need $30,000 speakers, you just need your ears.

    In 12 years in the hi-fi hobby, after A/B-ing my system to countless people, all have affirmed that vinyl is superior.

    I've had mid-fi like Paradigm, good stuff like Vandersteen, and excellent stuff (Meadowlark Audio) and vinyl is better on all of those. I've listened extensively to high-end Vandersteens, Maggies of all sizes, Thiels, B&W high-end, and God-knows how many others and vinyl always sounds better.

    Having said that, I'm glad you don't think so and I hope to receive some of the vinyl you have dumped over the years.

    "The absence of noise does not equate to the presence of music."
     
  20. Manny Calavera

    Manny Calavera Well-Known Member

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    Audiophiles: can you guys point me towards resources that have in-depth reviews of high-end components? I've been buying word of mouth for awhile now, and while I really haven't made any purchaes I regret, I'd like to look at some resources and there's such a wealth of info. out there I don't know who to trust.
     

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