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Vass distributorships, globalization, protectionism, etc...

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by aportnoy, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. A Harris

    A Harris Well-Known Member

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    No
     
  2. Roger

    Roger Well-Known Member

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    There is no inconsistency. As stated, they're samples. Which means I can sell them however I'd like. Standard industry practice. Nobody in their right mind would question that, unless they are trying to start trouble.
    I looked at the listing and couldn't find any mention of these shoes being samples. The only significance of this observation is that the original poster in this thread would not have known that they were samples, and, in my opinion, was not trying to "start trouble." And nobody is suggesting that it is in any way contrary to standard industry practice for reps to sell their samples. You are missing the central point of this thread, and that is: Your actions seem to suggest that the only people who can undercut BG are the NA reps. Then undercutting BG is OK. But if anyone else undercuts BG pricewise, it's not OK, and that person must be brought into line. So, let's be clear on the issue.

    I think you can understand why many forumers would conclude that the motives of Vass North America are not "the greatest good for the greatest number," but rather "the greatest good for Vass North America." Since your objectives as a Vass NA rep directly clash with those of many forumers, you can, I'm sure, see why this development has generated bad feeling. We are all governed by our own self-interest, and you can't expect SF and AAAC forumers to be cheerleaders for the growth and success of Vass North America if the steps towards that growth are hurting them financially.

    I have a question for you, A Harris: Can you tell us what you think the consequences to Vass sales in the US will be from (a) your shutting-down of the German seller and (b) the response to this action from members of this and the AAAC forums? If you don't have a firm opinion on this, perhaps you could speculate.
     
  3. Steve B.

    Steve B. Well-Known Member

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    Or bragging about undercutting the current Forum specials from Engineered Garments and Michael J. Krell.

    Or bragging about scooping Chris' source on the Grensons.

    IMO just not done...
     
  4. A Harris

    A Harris Well-Known Member

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    Huh???

    Selling samples cannot be considered undercutting a retailer by any stretch of the imagination. Haven't you ever heard of a sample sale?
     
  5. Roger

    Roger Well-Known Member

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    Can you tell us when this policy was changed (as it evidently was the policy in the past), and what led to its change?
     
  6. Roger

    Roger Well-Known Member

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    Huh???

    Selling samples for less than retail cannot be considered undercutting a retailer by any stretch of the imagination. Haven't you ever heard of a sample sale?

    I have. Would BG not feel that they were losing sales by having their rep selling the same shoes for significantly less than they, BG, were? This would seem to be consistent with the definition of "undercutting" in my lexicon. Or are you saying that it's only "undercutting" when someone other than a Vass NA rep does this (selling Vass shoes for less than BG does)?
     
  7. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Well-Known Member

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    Dr. David B got his brown Vass dress boots delivered this February (two months ago) to the United States direct from Vass for $615, including delivery and bank fee.
     
  8. A Harris

    A Harris Well-Known Member

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    No
     
  9. A Harris

    A Harris Well-Known Member

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    First, we did not "shut down' the German seller.

    Second, by protecting our retailers, we assured that there would continue to be a retail market for Vass shoes in the United States.

    Asked and answered. What's the deal, do you just like to hear yourself talk?
     
  10. Tomasso

    Tomasso Well-Known Member

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    What's the deal, do you just like to hear yourself talk?

    Harold Burson would have been asking you that same question after your FIRST post in regards to the Vass matter.
     
  11. A Harris

    A Harris Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tomasso, for your continued support. How stupid of me to feel like responding after several days of continuous PERSONAL attacks on two forums of which I've been a longtime member.

    And before everyone chimes with 'it's just business' - I don't buy that and never have. I do not have two different standards of conduct. Attack my business practices and you are attacking me. Period.
     
  12. Steve B.

    Steve B. Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of, anyone remember how Paul Stuart shut down the source after the first batch?
     
  13. Tomasso

    Tomasso Well-Known Member

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    How stupid of me to feel like responding after several days of continuous PERSONAL attacks

    I've observed this situation from its germination and it is my opinion that it could have been avoided if there would have been ZERO input from the Vass(North America) interests.

    Your continuous participation in this dialogue is pointless and only serves to further damage your credibility on this MB.

    I know Harold Burson and he has confided in me that the most difficult aspect of his business is convincing his clients to SHUT UP.
     
  14. Tomasso

    Tomasso Well-Known Member

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    I have been asked by J. to clarify that I have expressed my opinion, not the Forum's.

    Yes, it appears that J has identified you as being a loose canon{sic} and wishes to distance himself from you. But, J should be advised that his interests are not well served by your belligerent rhetoric.
     
  15. drake

    drake Well-Known Member

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    Wow you (Steve B.) can reply without editing someone elses post you know? Editing your reply into someone's post is about as deceptive/unclassy as you can ge; and acting like a "loose cannon" doesn't exactly make anyone want to take you seriously.
     
  16. whoopee

    whoopee Well-Known Member

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    Like A Harris said, they're samples. Not like selling retail stock.

    It's pretty clear by now where we stand. The vitriol spans several threads. Please stop. Everyone is just getting uglier.
     
  17. drake

    drake Well-Known Member

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    I don't know whoopee, the amount of people that would have ordered though a German retailer sight-unseen seems to be about the same amount of people that would buy from eBay, sight-unseen.

    While technically the German retailer would be undercutting the US outlets, in reality the amount of people that would go that route is about as significant as A Harris is "undercutting" via selling Vass shoes on eBay.

    The situation is quite amusing though.


    Like A Harris said, they're samples. Not like selling retail stock.
     
  18. whoopee

    whoopee Well-Known Member

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    A lot of members buy seconds sight unseen, too. Also not the same as buying retail stock from overseas.

    Even if you consider this "undercutting", it cannot be compared to the German retailer. Sample sales are controlled unloading of products that are not meant to be sold at standard locations for retail price. Here the shoes available are of limited number (one pair), whereas at the German source they were not. So no, the amount of people going this route is hardly significant at all.
     
  19. drake

    drake Well-Known Member

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    You are correct, a lot of members here do buy seconds sight-unseen, but that's the same demographic that would buy samples from eBay, a very small number of people. I also agree that sample sales are very different from retail outlets and basically all of your points. I'm just saything that people that would be buying these shoes from Germany is pretty insignificant and Harris/Gabor seem to be blowing it way out of proportion talking about retailers like Bergdorf's feeling threatened by this and whatnot and in the process are making themselves look rather like amateurs. Like I said before, it's all been interesting to read, very amusing.
    A lot of members buy seconds sight unseen, too. Also not the same as buying retail stock from overseas. Even if you consider this "undercutting", it cannot be compared to the German retailer. Sample sales are controlled unloading of products that are not meant to be sold at standard locations for retail price. Here the shoes available are of limited number (one pair), whereas at the German source they were not. So no, the amount of people going this route is hardly significant at all.
     
  20. Roger

    Roger Well-Known Member

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    First, we did not "shut down' the German seller.
    Well then, Harris, why don't you be honest with us about how it is that we were told by your partner that the German seller wouldn't be able to sell to the US market any more? One might say, "Asked but never answered (by you)."

    Second, by protecting our retailers, we assured that there would continue to be a retail market for Vass shoes in the United States.
    Or not. Time will tell.

    Asked and answered. What's the deal, do you just like to hear yourself talk?
    So far, Harris, I have stuck to the specifics of this issue and have refrained from juvenile--and irrelevant--comments. I'd suggest you try to be adult too. In fact, you have answered very little about what's been asked. In the passage to which you responded with your putdown, I asked you to explain an obvious inconsistency in your actions and between these and your comments. Responding with a putdown, rather than an authentic explanation, probably provides the answer.

    Perhaps the time has come to drop this, as it seems as though you don't wish to address the quite understandable questions and complaints that have been raised--or to demonstrate that you understand the completely natural concerns that many forumers have about their chances to own Vass shoes. I don't recall anyone saying that "it's just business" to indicate that you're probably a nice person outside the business context (although I could have missed that), but you sure haven't done yourself any favors with many forum members via this and other threads on this subject.

    I'm done with this issue, Harris. You can have the last word.
     

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