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Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. tcbrgs

    tcbrgs Well-Known Member

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    Sorry got confused with all usernames. You should also try ringing, they are very passionate about their linen especially John England, they will tell you all about their heritage and from all who use there linen, from the Queen last summer, RLPL etc etc
     
  2. tcbrgs

    tcbrgs Well-Known Member

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    No worries, it's your money you can give it to who you wish. In England we have an old saying 'a fool and his money are soon parted', food for thought
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  3. jerrybrowne

    jerrybrowne Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. We have the same saying here in the states. Interesting....... Anyhow, I'm not sure why you are being purposefully offensive as it is really not necessary and not worth the energy.

    It's just clothing that we're talking about.
     
  4. tchoy

    tchoy Well-Known Member

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    As always using a new tailor I am always trying to improve the pattern. I like winter coats with more drape for comfort reasons and ability to wear a light sweater underneath. Having said that I'll probably have the chest area clean up a little.



    I agreed with you on this as it is the lapel width is 3.75 inches. The tailor originally had it wider, it was my suggestion to slim it down.


    Thanks to everyone ego commented on the picture!
     
  5. RogerC

    RogerC Well-Known Member

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    It's a textured cashmere jacketing, but I wouldn't know from which books. If there is enough interest, I might contact Johnstons and see if they do custom weaves.
     
  6. poorsod

    poorsod Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I only source my own fabric if it is something not available to my tailor. Unless you are buying end bolts, I doubt most people save much money.

    The thing I'm trying to decide now is if I should buy retail fabric that I suspect won't ever be made again, just so I might be able to make it up in the future. It would be cheaper for me to make it up directly rather than sourcing it on my own and making it up later, but I don't need them now. :decisions:
     
  7. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Well-Known Member

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    Fabrics. I think many people are looking at them the wrong way. So many people are fixated on price. This costs this amount. This one costs a little less. This one costs even more.

    Instead of focusing on price, I think people should just buy what they want that they can possibly afford. Don't focus on the brand or the price, but the quality, color and overall aesthetic. The intrinsic value combined with what it's worth to you.

    If you are getting a bespoke product, this is something that can last a long, long time, possibly a lifetime. Will you really worry about an extra $100 you spent at the time? Probably not. But you may regret saving that $100.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
    5 people like this.
  8. jerrybrowne

    jerrybrowne Well-Known Member

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    Very eloquently put.
     
  9. forex

    forex Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that's the point, we are talking about possibly the same linens being sold by different parties at much different prices. There is no need to use the "you are getting bespoke clothes so don't be cheap" card here. I think that there is something fundamentally wrong if a merchant sells linen fabrics with 200% mark up, this is only in reference to linens. I don't have a problem paying the price for wools and tweeds as their value is higher to me.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Well-Known Member

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    I agree in that specific instance. But too often price and what can be had for cheapest is an overriding factor in people's decision making. I admit used to look too far into pricing. It ended up being more work researching than it's worth. I'd rather spend that time with my family and friends.
     
  11. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Well-Known Member

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    The problem with UW, especially after an open discussion on a forum that someone can make them aware of, is that they will refuse to sell now, often mentioning LL as best source... (happened to me, then I bought it from their distributor in Italy, on sale, at virtually the same price) .

    In general, if you know the source and can access it, then doing so is not cheap or wrong, it makes sense. I particular dislike the impact that the LL has had on some sources.

    However, just to compare properly, and in regards to Italian shirting, some of you are quoting pricing ex vat (wholesale) vs inc. vat (retail) that is a 20-21% impact. Bonfanti 170/2 90cm wide (you need 3 m average) inc vat and cut length comes out a bit more then mentioned. Carlo Riva cotton 180/2 90cm wide retail full price around the 45-55 euro per meter, and discounted on sale you will not pay less then 30 euro/m. I have also seen an invoice for a full roll of Riva (20-30 meters) at a different lower price, but it is virtually impossible to get it as they select their clients. G&R, SIC TESS and DJ Anderson top of the range also retail at over 40euro per meter, so it is possible to pay top dollars for top quality shirting, but not for Acorn or Canclini etc.. And neither for accessible 10-20 Euro per meter irish linen that some people charges huge marks up on. Italian Linen does cost more btw.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  12. mactire

    mactire Well-Known Member

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    I concur with this general statement but in these specific instances we're talking about certain internet personalities making a living for themselves and queering the pitch for anyone else with an interest in textiles. With what you'd save on the cloth you'd be halfway to another suit for instance.


    That's a subjective judgement, we each dole out our time as we see fit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2014
  13. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree that it's wrong if a mill or an individual takes something that is exactly the same and brands it as their own with a steep markup. If there are any custom changes done to the fabrics such as textures, colors, weaves, etc then a markup is fine. The only way to know that is to have samples of both in your hands or have the mill verify one way or the other. The latter likely will not happen so one is left to take the time to hunt down samples.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2014
  14. poorsod

    poorsod Well-Known Member

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    Your tailor must be quite inexpensive. Even with LL cloths, the fabric is at most 20-25% the cost of making it up for me.
     
  15. mactire

    mactire Well-Known Member

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    You can get a 2-piece canvassed suit on a CMT basis for E800/E1,000 in Ireland. I buy my cloth in 5m lengths to allow for mistakes, extra trousers, pattern-matching etc. so the savings on a length are obvious. E40m vs £120/m [both VAT incl.] is a saving of E100 per metre or E500.
     
  16. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Well-Known Member

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    At those prices I can understand where you're coming from. I've noticed that when I buy things from MyTailor, a suit made with fabric from Lesser is generally around 1.5x the price of a suit made with fabric from say VBC. It is a noticeable difference and can impact decision-making when one either does not have or does not care to spend more than a certain amount on clothes.

    On the other hand, someone buying a suit from Saville Row who is dropping perhaps 3,000 British Pounds may not notice an upcharge in fabric from 40 Pounds per meter to 120 Pounds per meter (ends up being an additional 400 Pounds on top of 3,000 Pounds so only a slight increase). When you consider that some tailors do promotions where they give you a lower price if you bring them LL cloth, it makes the decision easier.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. RogerC

    RogerC Well-Known Member

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    Lesser is around £60/m for the regular fabrics, and I'd imagine that MyTailor would order individual lengths as orders come in, rather than stock it, so shipping costs may apply as well. I don't know for how much VBC goes, but given that this is "standard" fabric, I'd imagine they'd have large quantities in stock. That's a couple of hundreds of dollars on top of a suit easily, even before markup.
     
  18. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Well-Known Member

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    No disagreements here. Just offering an example about how cloth pricing can end up being a very large component of the cost of a suit when labor is relatively inexpensive.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    So, I just went to see Frank to look at some Lesser 16 and he said he hasn't had that book in a long time. He called the merchant who said they stopped producing it, but can send a book marked with what they have left which is minimal. Anybody know what's up with that? Has it officially died? Does anybody have any left over navy fabric they'd be willing to sell? :(
     
  20. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Well-Known Member

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    they still have the bunch 302 16oz on the website, although with only 25 fabris example
     

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