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Understanding Denim

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by djc, May 14, 2011.

  1. faolennart

    faolennart New Member

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    What I want to know is why I should care? I mean, not to say that what you've got to say isn't important, but I mean, it's so generic. Everyone is just talking about this man. Give us something more, something that we can get behind so we can feel as passionately about it as you do
     
  2. whodini

    whodini Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused as to why an entry entitled "Jeans Construction" doesn't mention anything about how the jeans are sewn, let alone much in the way with how the jeans are assembled but more so what details a pair of Levi's have.
     
  3. djc

    djc Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I kinda went a little off track. It was supposed to be about the construction of jeans but then I started talking about the history and realised the post would be too big if I included everything. I should rename the post, sorry about that.

    EDIT:
    Name changed to Japanese Reproduction's - will do another post on construction later
     
  4. djc

    djc Well-Known Member

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    What I want to know is why I should care? I mean, not to say that what you've got to say isn't important, but I mean, it's so generic. Everyone is just talking about this man. Give us something more, something that we can get behind so we can feel as passionately about it as you do

    Feel free to provide some constructive criticism as to what you would like to read anytime...
     
  5. cb_32

    cb_32 Well-Known Member

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    Toronto, Canada.
    "You will see even Italian fashion brands such as Dior use Japanese fabrics in their premium raw jeans."

    Momotaro provided denim for Gucci at one point.
     
  6. pickpackpockpuck

    pickpackpockpuck Well-Known Member

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    "The term "selvedge" is often associated with Japanese denim and it refers to the byproduct of creation on a shuttle-loom. Selvedge denim is generally of higher quality than regular denim and gives the jeans a nice edge on the outseam of the pants. The purpose of this selvedge is mean to be so the denim does not unravel itself, however I have never heard of it happening on retail jeans and so it is really only used as a mark of quality."

    I'd love to see a primer on what "quality" means. I see this assumption thrown around a lot, but I don't know that I've seen a good explanation of why selvedge is "higher quality." I know why selvedge denim is more difficult to manufacture, but how does that translate into quality when you're wearing it? For instance, in my experience selvedge denim doesn't necessarily last longer because the big weak spot on all jeans, as I see it, is the crotch, and selvedge denim is just as susceptible to blowouts as non-selvedge. If selvedge is just a tighter weave of denim because it's made on narrow looms then what are the desirable characteristics of more tightly woven denim that make it better than wide-loomed denim? Think of questions like that and then find answers (I could be wrong, but I think that's what the poster meant when he said facts from the internet were just being regurgitated--in other words, do some original reporting).

    And I think if you're going to get into quality you have to talk about dyeing and construction as well. What are things a person should look for in the construction of jeans when they're handling a pair in store as they think about buying them? For instance, what does a well-sewn seam look like versus one that's poorly sewn? Are there any telltale signs of shoddy denim? What are some indications of good dyeing? Can you tell what rope-dyed denim looks like versus other methods? I think these posts you're doing could actually be a great resource if they're really detailed and contain info beyond what's already well-known.
     
  7. Pablo-T

    Pablo-T Well-Known Member

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    "The term "selvedge" is often associated with Japanese denim and it refers to the byproduct of creation on a shuttle-loom. Selvedge denim is generally of higher quality than regular denim and gives the jeans a nice edge on the outseam of the pants. The purpose of this selvedge is mean to be so the denim does not unravel itself, however I have never heard of it happening on retail jeans and so it is really only used as a mark of quality."
    It might be more helpful if you explain what selvage actually is. Then explain that it only appears on shuttle loom denim. Then talk about the difference between shuttle loom denim and projectile loom denim, and detail how projectile looms became common around the time that OE yarn was introduced, and manufacturers started using more sulphur and less indigo. Otherwise, you're just saying 'selvage is great' - when on its own, selvage has nothing to do with intrinsic quality.
     
  8. grundletaint

    grundletaint Well-Known Member

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    I thought I had mentioned pre-soaks were for unsanforized denim in my last post - which post are you referring to?

    i soak everything, sanforized or not. there's always gonna be some sort shrinkage in the denim and i like getting it out of the way and closer to how they'll eventually fit after a wash. as far as the dude who says they stretched out more than they would have without a soak....how? have you worn non-soaked ones before? i can't see how soaking them would make them more prone to stretch than normal unless they were worn damp or something.... it's gonna stretch out regardless so maybe those were just destined to do it anyways. getting them wet isn't gonna magically activate some stretch quality and, if anything, is gonna tighten the weave.
     
  9. zissou

    zissou Well-Known Member

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    ^I agree with soaking everything at first. It usually gets the denim to pop a little. I don't think they stretch more with an initial soak, but I would say they stretch sooner with one. I usually buy my jeans a little small, so an initial soak helps them stretch to a comfortable fit sooner.
    Just published my third post on "Wash and Care"
    This is pretty good advice, and not too OCD like many people get with their jeans. My only input is that I've generally found it unnecessary to turn jeans inside out unless they are going in the washing machine. Most of the dirt on my jeans is on the outside, so I think it makes sense to leave them right side out for a soak/hand wash in the tub. Plus, the creases seem to stay where they are. If they are going in the washer, it's likely that a crease or two will form, and turning them inside out should prevent that crease from fading due to abrasion while in the washer.
     
  10. djc

    djc Well-Known Member

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    It might be more helpful if you explain what selvage actually is. Then explain that it only appears on shuttle loom denim. Then talk about the difference between shuttle loom denim and projectile loom denim, and detail how projectile looms became common around the time that OE yarn was introduced, and manufacturers started using more sulphur and less indigo. Otherwise, you're just saying 'selvage is great' - when on its own, selvage has nothing to do with intrinsic quality.

    Sorry, I initially planned these write-ups to educate those new to the scene, I understand there are a lot of things I haven't covered sufficiently to keep those already in the know such as yourself, on their feet. There is just way too much content to cover and my goal is to provide an introduction for now. After all, if you get into the finer details it will just cause a shitstorm as most of it becomes based on preference. The argument can easily sway both ways as to what is the best with just a few people arguing. Bottom line is that it may just sound like I am regurgitating already known information, but that is how it is being marketed to us by the manufacturers and that is what the general consensus is.

    i soak everything, sanforized or not. there's always gonna be some sort shrinkage in the denim and i like getting it out of the way and closer to how they'll eventually fit after a wash. as far as the dude who says they stretched out more than they would have without a soak....how? have you worn non-soaked ones before? i can't see how soaking them would make them more prone to stretch than normal unless they were worn damp or something.... it's gonna stretch out regardless so maybe those were just destined to do it anyways. getting them wet isn't gonna magically activate some stretch quality and, if anything, is gonna tighten the weave.

    That is true and I don't dispute that - who are you referring to who said they stretched out more? I don't recall a statement like that being made. I have worn soaked and non-soaked jeans and I don't disagree with what you are saying. Perhaps you have misinterpreted something that has been said - but in my books the denim will stretch out the same regardless of whether it has been washed before or after wearing, and like you said the only difference being you are able to get most of the shrinkage out of the way if you choose to introduce it to water beforehand.
     
  11. grundletaint

    grundletaint Well-Known Member

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    Was responding to antihero
     
  12. djc

    djc Well-Known Member

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    Oh right, I agree entirely with your views on soaking, but each to their own when it comes to washing [​IMG]
     
  13. Master-Classter

    Master-Classter Well-Known Member

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    you might consider breaking down the explanations into level 1,2,3 or something. so people who only want an overview / beginners (level 1) read those parts, then they can click for further details (level 2, 3, etc) for more advanced terms and explanations. That way it's not as hard for you to figure out what to include or not. Just put it all and break it into pieces.
     
  14. ice86x

    ice86x Well-Known Member

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    Apr 25, 2010
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    New York City
    The blog kind of bores me and reads like a lame history textbook. Make it more personal
     
  15. Class54

    Class54 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 9, 2007
    I don't really understand the purpose of your blog but maybe this will help.
     
  16. djc

    djc Well-Known Member

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    Apr 1, 2011
    you might consider breaking down the explanations into level 1,2,3 or something. so people who only want an overview / beginners (level 1) read those parts, then they can click for further details (level 2, 3, etc) for more advanced terms and explanations. That way it's not as hard for you to figure out what to include or not. Just put it all and break it into pieces.

    That is a great idea - I will definitely take that on board with future posts! [​IMG]

    The blog kind of bores me and reads like a lame history textbook. Make it more personal

    Thanks for your honest opinion, as you can tell I'm pretty new to this blogging thing and not the best at it, I will take what you said on board.

    I don't really understand the purpose of your blog but maybe this will help.

    The purpose is to provide information to those who don't know much or anything about denim. I hope at least some of what I have written has been helpful to some..
     
  17. abcdenim

    abcdenim Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2011
    hey, not sure if its just me but some pictures won't load. just a heads up! and if its working for everyone else but me.....then i'll just have to imagine the pictures haha. and nice posts really enjoying them!
     

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