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Trying to Understand the Talk About "New SF" and "New SF B&S"

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by jischwar, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. jischwar

    jischwar Well-Known Member

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    Just curious... hear a lot of mention about how this is the new SF and it isn't like the old SF or SF B&S. I guess I'm too new to have seen what it was like a couple years ago.

    So for you long time members, maybe a little nostalgia, what did this forum used to be like?
     
  2. acidboy

    acidboy Well-Known Member

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  3. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    ^^ with bewbs.
     
  4. NORE

    NORE Well-Known Member

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    I've been here for almost 10 years and there's still loads of BS on SF so I don't get all of the bellyaching either :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but it was a better, more erudite, more elegant, snarkier BS. Back then it was Ancient Greece (yes, even the buttsechs), whereas now it's more Roman Empire under Gaius Marius.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  6. NORE

    NORE Well-Known Member

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    It could be that posts/threads weren't disappearing into thin air/people had thicker skin. Nowadays it's like walking on eggshells around this muf.....
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    okay, hang on here. What posts are disappearing? I don't see any disappearing posts. :roma:
     
  8. NORE

    NORE Well-Known Member

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    Hint: You will see a few posts quoted by others but won't see the OP quoted. Gone, like muvaflocking Whodini
     
  9. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Actually Whodini's still around, though not as much. I think that he is a doctor or something now, and honestly, it's hard to post on a forum when you are a junior doc running around like a madman cleaning up people's (literal) shit.
     
  10. NORE

    NORE Well-Known Member

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    An MC heavy perspective:

    Earlier on, there were many members who migrated to this site from other sites or just found it searching for answers to questions & general info re clothing. There were long, lively, informative discussions regarding clothing, rules of dress, different styles, etc. with the intended purpose of elevating one's own style sense and in turn, helping others to do the same. The amount of knowledge shared was only rivaled by the amount of people willing to learn a thing or three. Knowledge about things that seem elementary to most long-time members now. Knowledge re who-makes-what-for-whom, etc., and to be honest, many of us would never have given a second thought to that pair of Brooks Brothers or Lands' end shoes, or, inconspicuously pinched a coat in search of canvas, had it not been for the knowledge that they were made in England by C&J or AS, or Isaia, etc., thanks to the forum. The same extended for some to bespoken articles, many by "mystery bootmakers" or, "mystery tailors".

    There were countless PSAs (Public Service Announcements) regarding sales and such shared with the fora at no cost and with no intent to capitalize. A brotherhood. Many of us bought countless pairs of shoes, etc. just so we could post pics and exclaim, Kopped! :slayer: on teh forum. We wore our purchases with pride knowing that these, yes, these, are forum approved and in many instances could identify a fellow member IRL based on the same.

    When someone bought something that didn't fit, or work for them, they offered it up on the B&S boards at cost or at a loss. There was no, "add x% for paypal fees" or "do you accept refunds?" for if you bought something off of B&S that didn't work for you, you knew you could just put a line in your sig and someone else would snap it up. If you search my original SN for some of the first threads I started here, they were on B&S and I have even bumped my threads posting no more than, "bump". It was that good.

    Then we reached a saturation point. There was little else those same members [thought they] needed to know about clothing. We became experts. Thus, we turned to snark. Looking down our noses at latecomers, newer members seeking the same thing we'd experienced not too long ago. We forced our own opinions down newbs throats in such a dogmatic way, it seemed only logical to comply. Or we flamed out and got banned.

    PSAs became a vehicle for monetary gain; the forum descended on B&M establishments with such a fury that no longer does EG do mail order with their semi-annual sales. No longer does RL @Woodbury take phone orders, et. al. And, to top it all off, members were taking their hauls and listing them on B&S at a markup. Not a, "I need to recoup gas & tolls", markup. Exorbitant markups. Straight price gouging.

    Brother turned against brother and a divide was inevitable. It may not be immediately apparent now but this is largely the tone. Such is life.

    There are still those of us who try to champion the virtues [we feel] the site stands for and will do so no matter how many times we are timed out or banned. Self inclusive. This is love. This is life.

    Bris.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
    2 people like this.
  11. lasbar

    lasbar Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Nore...

    Nostalgia and selective memory are great life lenses but SF has lost its aura..

    People had more gravitas and decorum even if vicious exchanges were legion...

    It was more a country club than high school..

    I came and I did learn a lot from Rjamn, Manton ,Foo , Dopey, Kuro ,Iammatt, RSS and many others..

    They introduced me to Rubinacci ,Charvet, Delos , Huntsman and all these great clothing legends..

    People were more patient and also tolerant and more snark was used than bullying..

    Now we have threads patronizing or humiliating people without the old SF gentlemanship kicking in at one point..

    It might be a demographic change with a new generation bringing new inner rules..

    I do not know..
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    this is some depressing shit. geez.

    i have definitely seen a change in the few years i have been here, but nothing like what nore describes. part of me is sad that i missed it, part of me is glad i dont have to be so upset about the change.
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Guys, I may be wrong here, but this is how it goes when the population of a group increases. You go from those who do from love, then you attract those who seek a profit, then you get those who wander in wondering why is everyone's suits so snug? Where things really go sideways is when newbs come in proud of their Brandini wool-poly blend zoot suit and then get all huffy when they get the abuse they asked for. At least Mt. Spiffy was a good sport about it, but for every Mt. Spiffy and PTWilliams there are like 30 Blueoakleyz and Mocazens - ITG's of the worst sort.
     
  14. jrd617

    jrd617 Well-Known Member

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    This makes me feel old.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  15. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    this. WAYWRN is painful to read.

    honestly, i would rather read a million snarky cape related posts, than have to look at all the horribly lit, ill fitted, terribly matched shit that gets posted daily.

    NOT because they are bad. most people start bad. rather, because people are SO defensive about their crap. my first bunch of fit pics were miserable. hell, in one i wore a SC with a ben sherman shirt, no tie and with a fully visible crew neck t shirt. my jacket sleeves were in my palms in another, and my pants cuffs pooled around my shoes like layer cake. not to mention bit ferragamo loafers with a 6 on 2 DB suit. but instead of defending my self, i took the earnest advise, and i changed the issues.

    the standard MO now seems to be to defend yourself to the bitter end, instead of learning a thing or two. on top of that, there are a bazillion newbs, half of whom are snarky without cause, and the other half who obliviously just compliment whatever gets posted.

    i dont know which came forst, the chicken or the egg. but i think part of the issue, is there is such a dearth of quality, top notch posters posting their fits. i imagine if they would step up again, people would have a comparison to see what good dress actually looks like, and might be more willing to accept that they need to make adjustments. then again, i have heard that the well meant critiques feel on deaf ears, and thats why so many of the quality posters stopped posting.

    either way, it fucking sucks.


    lol, it been a while sine we had one of these threads. :)
     
  16. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Well-Known Member

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    :)

    Let me describe something, and you let me know if it makes sense. I'll only talk about MC, since the rest of the site doesn't really interest me enough to spend much time in those sections.

    The site has 100K "members" signed up, and I assume gets a lot of lurking drop-ins from Google searches and so on.

    Of those 100K members, what proportion of posts are made by the, oh, 200 most active members (even not accounting for you :) )?)

    Of new threads started, how many are started by members who make less than, oh, 100 total posts? In other words, people who are oriented to their own needs and demands rather than bringing something to the table themselves? Most threads?

    So, then out of the 200 or so most active members, how many start interesting new threads themselves? You know, on Mens Clothing topics?

    My point is that while there is a lot of self-congratulation about how "high" volume the site is, when it comes to Mens Clothing, the whole superstructure comes down to just a few guys who can (1) start good threads, (2) make intelligent, knowledge responses about Mens Clothing, and (3) maintain some continuing energy in participating.

    This is a small group...far smaller than that 200 number that I'm using above. So, when such a guy gets basically hounded out like Montesquieu by a bunch of shitheads, with nary a presence by a forum mod, it is very disappointing that when this kind of poster chooses to return, his thread and he become the meal du mod du jour.

    That's what I'm saying. It became clear to me that the site had somehow become geared to the non-contributor, or contributors following a sanctioned script, and retailers, a while ago. This whole with Monty's thread just reminds me of something I had conveniently forgotten for a few months.

    Fok has posted over and over again that he sees no significant change in SF over time: just more people.

    Is that what you guys see? Does anyone really agree with him?

    So, there's a big disconnect between having a great MC forum and how the site is run today. That's my opinion.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. jrd617

    jrd617 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly five. Sad Voxsartoria is no longer with us. He was my favorite. RIP.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    That's an insightful post, I get what you're saying and I can't really argue some of your points without appearing biased. That said, I think you might consider two other factors -

    1) when you've discussed fabrics and fits, et al - eventually you run out of new things to say or see. I know at least one long-timer who just ran out of things to say - well, relevant to MC. Still cares about clothes, though.

    2) this is an off-point but I think it leads somewhere relevant: as I understand it, one of the primary debates in linguists is the difference between precriptionists and decriptivists relative to how words are defined. In other words: does word ABC mean what it meant 30 years ago, or do we now accept ABC's common usage which is a bit different from what it used to mean. Replace "ABC" with "style" and now we get to the current tug-of-war in MC. (at least, how I see it).
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  19. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    not sure if srs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  20. NORE

    NORE Well-Known Member

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    In my earlier post I deliberately refrained from using specific names, names we hear too often when talk of SF's heyday comes about. I did this because where one excelled, there is no telling who else could/would step in and accept the baton. F. Corbera alluded to this in another post; there is still potential.

    I look at members who have 10-20K poasts over two years or so and have to think, what really have those members contributed? Now if you add up all of my posts including all of my personas over ~10 years here, I would probably just breach 10K. But that doesn't mean that I don't personally chip in to help newbs now and again using the collective knowledge I've gleaned over the years, no matter my personal opinion. Problem is, for example, many times when I do so I get reprimanded because "this thread has evolved beyond what the OP intended it for". Poppycock.

    I read somewhere where Fok said in an interview with someone, something to the tune of, "our site is so popular that when people get banned, they email me begging to be reinstated", or something. C'mon, son. Did you really look into why they were banned or really know the backstory behind the flameout? I'm not convinced.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012

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