Toronto restaurant recommendation

[West24]

i remember having an argument with someone on this forum a while back about toronto's night life and they brought up something about no bottle service etc and they had no idea what the **** they were talking about. im sure it was you under a different name. youre so clueless its pathetic. i wont even talk about the sports because your response was so lame.

 

[West24]

busted??
http://www.styleforum.net/showthread...onto+nightlife

 

[freshcutgrass]

At McGill, almost every torontonian kid fits that description. All nice kids, just all very stereotypical, and yea, I found them mostly quite immature but harmless. Sorry dude, but Toronto isn't my thing.

Thank god life in the city doesn't boil down to the kids you may have run into at school. And I have news for ya...you're pretty much all immature and annoying.

Montreal is far better than Toronto in night life, festivals, music, food, and sports. Those are things that matter to me most. You cannot argue with me on any of these grounds.

I'm sure arguing with you would be pointless. But the fact remains, in breadth, depth, quality, quantity and diversity, Montreal does not come close to Toronto in anything...not cuisine, art, music, theatre, photography, film, dance, festivals, literature, fashion, architecture, animation, sports, etc, etc. Toronto is where the the vast majority of the brightest and the best are attracted...from Canada and abroad. Not Montreal or Vancouver. It doesn't matter if it's homegrown talent or visiting talent...Toronto is the place to be. Sorry pal. I know you could drop a thermonuclear bomb on Montreal, and the last survivor would climb on top of the rubble and still proclaim Montreal better than Toronto. I am well aware that is the nature of the beast. Still won't make it true though. You can think I'm just spewing hometown pride, but I'm probably a lot older than you, and have exposed myself to a wide variety of cultural experiences...so i already know. You don't have to take my word for it...there's plenty of various unbiased sources to back it up....Washington, D.C.-based Foreign Policy magazine's Global Cities Index, in the November/December issue, ranked Toronto as the world's fourth best city to experience culture, behind only London, Paris and New York.

I hate the new opera house

Why? Not a fan of Jack Diamond? Don't like the acoustics? (ranked one of the best in the world) Think the performances of either the opera or ballet are "trash" to use a phrase from such a cultured fella like yourself ? Or could it have something to do with the fact that Montreal doesn't even have a purpose-built opera house, or isn't the home of the Canadian Opera Company or the National Ballet?

the TSO is trash (Oundjian will hopefully get fired any day)

I'm sure you will be getting a phone call real soon, begging for your opinion who should replace him (someone from Montreal no doubt).

the ROM could have been beautiful if they went for all glass, now it looks like a scrap pile

You should have also gotten a call from Libeskind too. Can't believe that didn't happen, as I'm sure he's interested in your opinnion of his style. Wasn't going to be all glass for two reasons...Libeskind doesn't design "greenhouses"...and from a practical standpoint, it doesn't make for a very good space to house museum exhibits. Again, sounds like sour grapes...Montreal doesn't have anything to match ROM. Your little preemptive strike on Toronto's new cultural venues is a little transparent don't you think? Please continue...let's hear your opinion of all the other new cultural additions...can't wait to hear your expert trashing.... Alsop's OCAD building, the new National Ballet School, The Young Centre for the Performing Arts (home of Soulpepper), Agents of Change at the Ontario Science Centre, The Gardiner Museum expansion, Royal Conservatory of Music: TELUS Centre for Performance and Learning, Gehry's AGO expansion, TIFF Group's Bell Lightbox, Filmport..a 1.5 million sqft film complex with the world's largest soundstage (and another Alsop building). Montreal can't compete. But those are just the big institutions. Toronto is more of a grass-roots, indy city. I like the big institutions too, but the real mojo is all the little things, where Toronto trounces Montreal as well.

Their big claim to fame are things like Carabana

Oh yea, that's pretty much all there is eh?? ha ha I can't stand carabana...just a rowdy party with generally bad music, bad behavior, and the streets full of Americans and their pimped out SUV's. In fact, a lot of the big festivals are just too big to enjoy (Beaches Jazz, Taste of the Danny, Pride, CHIN Picnic, Buskerfest, Wakestock, any of the "BIA" festivals, etc). I prefer the smaller, or more focused festivals...Nuit Blanche, Word on the Street, any of the Harbourfront Centre festivals, Contact, Distillery District festivals, the outdoor art fair, Luminato, International Dragon Boat Race, Fringe, Masala! Mendhi! Masti!, Summerworks, basically anything going on in Kensington, to name a few.

TIFF is probably my favourite film festival, but I haven't been able to attend South by Southwest yet so until I have, I cannot say it is the best major international festival.

The film world is waiting with baited breath for your assessment, I'm sure. SXSW is an important industry music festival for bands, but the tack-on independent film festival isn't as big or important as Sundance, let alone TIFF. TIFF is more than just the Sept festival...it's a year round thing....plus they have their new headquarters under construction as we speak. TIFF is definitely important, but Toronto has about a 100 film festivals, some of which are just as good/ important as TIFF in their respective categories...Sprockets, Hot Docs, Inside Out, World Wide Shorts, Reel Asian, \tRendezvous with Madness, After Dark.

 

[SField]

freshcut,

Montreal is recognized as one of the world's best cities for food. I don't think anyone has ever said that about Toronto.

Never liked most of the classical music comming out of that city besides Tafilmusik. And yes, the MSO is a few light years better than the TSO. It has a much richer history, more and better recordings, and a far better international reputation. Place des Arts is being replaced by 2011.

Roy Thompson is a beautiful hall, I even liked it before the reno, aesthetically. I heard the Messiah there on the 19th but it was quite mediocre. The Opera house has been a dissapointment for me. In any case, I don't think we share the same tastes, if you can really tell me that especially food and music are better in toronto, then I don't think there's much point in this continuing.

Keep in mind that I'm younger than you, and that the people I will spend most of my time with are likely to be around my age, so that part of the culture is going to color my perception of a city more than anything. I guess it's a good thing I don't live in Toronto then, is it? Maybe as I get older, I'll like the city more, but for now, what I spend most of my time doing, it isn't the place for me. Culturally I'll probably always end up comparing it to New York and Chicago, so I don't know if I'll ever think it's particularly special from that angle either. I suppose I just like Montreal more because to me, and to a lot of people, it is unique in North America. Toronto I've always thought of as a larger Seattle with less rain. They've also really fucked up the waterfront with all those condos and it's quite a shame.

 

[SField]

Originally Posted by West24

busted??
http://www.styleforum.net/showthread...onto+nightlife

I read through that... I certainly don't agree with him that Toronto has Montreal beat in everything but night life. For me, Montreal beats Toronto in a lot more than that.

 

[Pookehs]

Toronto's problem is the people who run around trying to convince everyone else that Toronto is the greatest city in the world and then getting terribly offended by claims that City X beats Toronto out in Category Y.

So the world doesn't think that we're the best (or even remotely competitive, for that matter) in just about any category you could think of...but who cares? I still love living here--do you?

Some Torontonians really need to get over themselves and just appreciate this city for what it is: a great city in and of itself. You can be proud of Toronto without belligerently comparing it to other cities. Stop giving the rest of Canada (and the world) reasons to tell us that we're nothing but a bottom feeder in the global city food chain and you will have a hell of a lot less to get so defensive about.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Montreal is recognized as one of the world's best cities for food. I don't think anyone has ever said that about Toronto.

Such rumours are only muttered by Montrealers who still believe as i mentioned earlier, that it's still 1967. When speaking about Toronto, any Montrealer or expat can never be taken seriously...we already know the foregone conclusion.

I think Montreal is an excellent city for dining, and their general attitude towards dining out (including cafes) has a richer history than Toronto. But like I said, it isn't 1967.

Both cities have plenty of "fine dining", but where Toronto excels, is in the diversity and sheer numbers of it's "ethnic" food. Toronto has also been prosperous and growing like crazy for decades, while Montreal has been mostly depressed for decades...this has a massive effect on the dining scene. Toronto also has had the more high profile chefs (although some of that is simply due to Toronto having more media power). Toronto also produces/attracts more young talent and opens way more new restaurants. It's simply put, a more vibrant scene in Toronto any way you want to shake it.

Speaking of new restaurants, I'm wondering what the bevy of new high-end hotels currently under construction (Ritz, Trump, Four Seasons, Shangri La, The Gansevoort, Thompson) are going to produce in terms of attracting clientel to whatever restaurants they are going to have.

And yes, the MSO is a few light years better than the TSO.

By now, I think we all know what your standard answer to everything is...no bias there of course. ha ha I don't go to hear either TSO or MSO, so I have no personal opinion to add, but somehow I am suspect your hyperbole terms like "light years".

I suppose I just like Montreal more because to me, and to a lot of people, it is unique in North America.

That's exactly why I like Montreal too. It's the world's only French Canadian metropolis, and it's fun to travel to cities and experience their distinctiveness. I've been visiting Montreal (and Quebec in general) regularly since the early 80's. The one thing you can count on...is Montreal is always Montreal...it doesn't change much...it's a very homogeneous city. That's why I like to visit it, but wouldn't want to live there for very long...I much prefer Toronto's constant morphing and diversity. And that's the thing...some people like change...others can't stand it.

Toronto I've always thought of as a larger Seattle with less rain.

Ok...now you're just being silly again.

They've also really fucked up the waterfront with all those condos and it's quite a shame.

A few condos on the inner harbour you can like or dislike I guess, but Toronto has a lot of diverse waterfront...something for everyone. Considering Montreal is an island, it has one of the most pathetic waterfronts.

 

[eg1]

Originally Posted by Pookehs

Toronto's problem is the people who run around trying to convince everyone else that Toronto is the greatest city in the world and then getting terribly offended by claims that City X beats Toronto out in Category Y.

So the world doesn't think that we're the best (or even remotely competitive, for that matter) in just about any category you could think of...but who cares? I still love living here--do you?

Some Torontonians really need to get over themselves and just appreciate this city for what it is: a great city in and of itself. You can be proud of Toronto without belligerently comparing it to other cities. Stop giving the rest of Canada (and the world) reasons to tell us that we're nothing but a bottom feeder in the global city food chain and you will have a hell of a lot less to get so defensive about.

This post makes a great deal of sense, but I wouldn't expect very many Torontonians to grasp it.

 

[Piobaire]

This thread has totally delivered for me. Thank you all that helped.

 

[SField]

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

Such rumours are only muttered by Montrealers who still believe as i mentioned earlier, that it's still 1967. When speaking about Toronto, any Montrealer or expat can never be taken seriously...we already know the foregone conclusion.

I think Montreal is an excellent city for dining, and their general attitude towards dining out (including cafes) has a richer history than Toronto. But like I said, it isn't 1967.

Both cities have plenty of "fine dining", but where Toronto excels, is in the diversity and sheer numbers of it's "ethnic" food. Toronto has also been prosperous and growing like crazy for decades, while Montreal has been mostly depressed for decades...this has a massive effect on the dining scene. Toronto also has had the more high profile chefs (although some of that is simply due to Toronto having more media power). Toronto also produces/attracts more young talent and opens way more new restaurants. It's simply put, a more vibrant scene in Toronto any way you want to shake it.

Speaking of new restaurants, I'm wondering what the bevy of new high-end hotels currently under construction (Ritz, Trump, Four Seasons, Shangri La, The Gansevoort, Thompson) are going to produce in terms of attracting clientel to whatever restaurants they are going to have.




By now, I think we all know what your standard answer to everything is...no bias there of course. ha ha I don't go to hear either TSO or MSO, so I have no personal opinion to add, but somehow I am suspect your hyperbole terms like "light years".





That's exactly why I like Montreal too. It's the world's only French Canadian metropolis, and it's fun to travel to cities and experience their distinctiveness. I've been visiting Montreal (and Quebec in general) regularly since the early 80's. The one thing you can count on...is Montreal is always Montreal...it doesn't change much...it's a very homogeneous city. That's why I like to visit it, but wouldn't want to live there for very long...I much prefer Toronto's constant morphing and diversity. And that's the thing...some people like change...others can't stand it.




Ok...now you're just being silly again.




A few condos on the inner harbour you can like or dislike I guess, but Toronto has a lot of diverse waterfront...something for everyone. Considering Montreal is an island, it has one of the most pathetic waterfronts.

Ok I didn't even read all of that. We both have our own opinions. I've eaten at McKewan's places, I just ate at Canoe, and I've eaten at two events catered by Kennedy. (also Truffles at Four Seasons when Lynn Crawford was there), and Bronte, Toque!, Pied, Anise, and several others impressed me more. That's our own opinions. I mean, I've lived and will continue to live in Chicago and New York which I believe are superior to both, so it's not like I really have a big dog in this fight. My emotions aren't so heavily invested, I just happen to disagree with you. I cannot evaluate the state of Montreal in 67 since I was not born yet, but having spent so much time eating out in NY and Chicago, I can tell you that Montreal comes much closer to that standard than Toronto does. Again, we have a difference of opinion, and this will not change for either of us. I am talking about where I like to spend 3-4 days. For me, it's Montreal. I would never, ever live in either city when I can live in Chicago or New York, so again I speak from where I'd like to visit for maybe a week tops.

In the spirit of the season, I will apologise for my hard headedness, and wish you a happy Christmas. You love your city, and I am very glad for you. We are both in the places we need to be. Best to you and yours.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Toronto's problem is the people who run around trying to convince everyone else that Toronto is the greatest city in the world

hmmm...where is anyone trying to convince anybody that Toronto is the "best city in the world" here? It's a simple case of a Montrealer spewing the same old tired story how Montreal is great and Toronto sucks with absolutely no provocation. I was simply countering his rhetoric with facts and details.

Yes, I may be guilty of engaging the childish rantings in the first place, when such immaturity is best left ignored, but if your going to point fingers at who said what, get your facts straight first.

Anyway...I think everything has been said that needs to be said more than once already. Places to go...things to do...you know the routine.

Happy Holidays to all, and to settle the argument, we all know mom's Xmas dinner is the best meal of the year...right? (definitely not in my case)

 

[SField]

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

hmmm...where is anyone trying to convince anybody that Toronto is the "best city in the world" here? It's a simple case of a Montrealer spewing the same old tired story how Montreal is great and Toronto sucks with absolutely no provocation. I was simply countering his rhetoric with facts and details.

Yes, I may be guilty of engaging the childish rantings in the first place, when such immaturity is best left ignored, but if your going to point fingers at who said what, get your facts straight first.

Anyway...I think everything has been said that needs to be said more than once already. Places to go...things to do...you know the routine.

Happy Holidays to all, and to settle the argument, we all know mom's Xmas dinner is the best meal of the year...right? (definitely not in my case)

Hah, I don't think my mom has ever made more than toast.

 

[audiophilia]

This thread began as a restaurant rec. Oh well.

The problem with Toronto is that it is a wannabe city. If it alluded to its mediocrity happily, no sweat. But it really has delusions of grandeur without the benefit a decent highway system, a decent public transit system, a great restaurant, a great orchestra, a great museum, etc. It's modern. It's safe (ish). It's been great to bring up kids. But the drivers, the nouveau riche attitude, the arrogance re its multiculturalism (to be fair, it's worked as well here as it has been a disaster in most other places) and the crushing mediocrity of its arts institutions, dilutes its place to a second tier city.

Montreal's my home town. Love the place. Hate the myopic French bullshit. Fine orchestra. Good restaurants. Beautiful women.

Both, however, pale in comparison to NY, London, Chicago, etc, for all the things that I love about cities.

Don't get your knickers in a knot. If you love the city, good for you. It has some fine qualities.

As for Peter Oundjian?

Incorrect.

 

[SField]

Originally Posted by audiophilia

This thread began as a restaurant rec. Oh well.

The problem with Toronto is that it is a wannabe city. If it alluded to its mediocrity happily, no sweat. But it really has delusions of grandeur without the benefit a decent highway system, a decent public transit system, a great restaurant, a great orchestra, a great museum, etc. It's modern. It's safe (ish). It's been great to bring up kids. But the drivers, the nouveau riche attitude, the arrogance re its multiculturalism (to be fair, it's worked as well here as it has been a disaster in most other places) and the crushing mediocrity of its arts institutions, dilutes its place to a second tier city.

Montreal's my home town. Love the place. Hate the myopic French bullshit. Fine orchestra. Good restaurants. Beautiful women.

Both, however, pale in comparison to NY, London, Chicago, etc, for all the things that I love about cities.

Don't get your knickers in a knot. If you love the city, good for you. It has some fine qualities.

As for Peter Oundjian?

Incorrect.

Incorrect in what respect?

 

[audiophilia]

Well, I was just teasing you a little after your reaction to my pithy dismissal of your grad alma mater. In fact, I've really enjoyed performing there (mainly at Alice Millar) and my son fell in love with the place last year and wants to do his MA there.

Peter Oundjian? Well, to be fair, the orchestra really like him (as much as an orchestra can like any conductor) and in general play quite well for him. He's a brilliant violinist and brings excellent musicianship to the group. But, he's not an arrogant, orchestra building prick like Dutoit was with Montreal. They hated his guts, but they improved so much under him. Toronto would not put up with that and the players seem quite happy in their musical doldrums.

The TSO has been mediocre for many years after a string of overrated conductors like Saraste and bores like Herbig. But, they were mediocre in their early days as well in the lovely acoustics of Massey Hall. In Thomson, one of the world's most God forsaken halls, they sound very much like the city. A little glossy, a little shallow, with not much underneath. Playing in that hall is scary bad.