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Toronto restaurant recommendation

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by SField, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. SField

    SField Well-Known Member

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    Well, I was just teasing you a little after your reaction to my pithy dismissal of your grad alma mater. In fact, I've really enjoyed performing there (mainly at Alice Millar) and my son fell in love with the place last year and wants to do his MA there.

    Peter Oundjian? Well, to be fair, the orchestra really like him (as much as an orchestra can like any conductor) and in general play quite well for him. He's a brilliant violinist and brings excellent musicianship to the group. But, he's not an arrogant, orchestra building prick like Dutoit was with Montreal. They hated his guts, but they improved so much under him. Toronto would not put up with that and the players seem quite happy in their musical doldrums.

    The TSO has been mediocre for many years after a string of overrated conductors like Saraste and bores like Herbig. But, they were mediocre in their early days as well in the lovely acoustics of Massey Hall. In Thomson, one of the world's most God forsaken halls, they sound very much like the city. A little glossy, a little shallow, with not much underneath. Playing in that hall is scary bad.



    Well in the Toyko he was really great but he has focal dystonia so he isn't playing anymore. Unfortunately, building personel is a large part of what makes an orchestra great. Before Nagano, the MSO had Masur, Mehta, and then Dutoit. These are all guys who have helped to build great ensembles. Maazel and Barenboim are also conductors that are not always liked by their ensembles but they get big results. As far as your general opinion on Toronto, I really have to agree.
     
  2. freshcutgrass

    freshcutgrass Well-Known Member

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    No...it ended with one. Oh well.

    If you want to keep this bullshit going...then fine.

    There's only thing worse than the usual ankle-biting anti-Toronto crowd from "elsewhere", is the phony apologetic Torontonian, who's really just an ex-pat Montrealer with the same bad attitude...touting the same meaningless phrases like "wannabe", and even when acknowledging the obvious strong points, needs to add a disclaimer to discredit it.

    What makes you think it matters or that anybody cares what you think "the problem with Toronto is". If Toronto makes you that frothing at the mouth miserable, then save your sanity and move to...what...Chicago???? (you've GOT to be kidding me). Sure...go for the big Alpha cities like NYC or London (hope you're a high roller), and find out just how big the gap is between what they do well, and what they do very poorly.

    Don't wait...book a flight tonight...and have Xmas in your dream city.

    And please...now you can now tell me how all that translates into "Toronto is the best city in the world" one more time.
     
  3. West24

    West24 Well-Known Member

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    im not here to go off on how amazing toronto is. sfield started bashing it and saing how montreal was better in everyway, when it most definately is not. ofcourse toronto lacks some things to make it on the level of NY, london etc, one major thing being the ttc which is shit. and sfield you keep throwing things out there that make no sence. bad waterfront? it was ranked 7th in the world by different sites.
     
  4. SField

    SField Well-Known Member

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    im not here to go off on how amazing toronto is. sfield started bashing it and saing how montreal was better in everyway, when it most definately is not. ofcourse toronto lacks some things to make it on the level of NY, london etc, one major thing being the ttc which is shit. and sfield you keep throwing things out there that make no sence. bad waterfront? it was ranked 7th in the world by different sites.

    Huh really? Everyone i know from Toronto complains about its waterfront. I mean, it's a major point of contention in city hall.

    TTC is good, I will admit. It's clean and runs regularly. Once Union is refurbished I think it can give a lot of major hubs a run for its money.
     
  5. West24

    West24 Well-Known Member

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    Huh really? Everyone i know from Toronto complains about its waterfront. I mean, it's a major point of contention in city hall.

    TTC is good, I will admit. It's clean and runs regularly. Once Union is refurbished I think it can give a lot of major hubs a run for its money.


    are you crazy? the ttc is TERRIBLE. the subway goes nowhere, it closes at 1 :45, and is generally a hassle if wherever youre going is not on the subway line.
     
  6. SField

    SField Well-Known Member

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    are you crazy? the ttc is TERRIBLE. the subway goes nowhere, it closes at 1 :45, and is generally a hassle if wherever youre going is not on the subway line.

    you ever take transport in Montreal?

    Most of the stations are beyond disgusting.
     
  7. audiophilia

    audiophilia Well-Known Member

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    No...it ended with one. Oh well.

    If you want to keep this bullshit going...then fine.

    There's only thing worse than the usual ankle-biting anti-Toronto crowd from "elsewhere", is the phony apologetic Torontonian, who's really just an ex-pat Montrealer with the same bad attitude...touting the same meaningless phrases like "wannabe", and even when acknowledging the obvious strong points, needs to add a disclaimer to discredit it.

    What makes you think it matters or that anybody cares what you think "the problem with Toronto is". If Toronto makes you that frothing at the mouth miserable, then save your sanity and move to...what...Chicago???? (you've GOT to be kidding me). Sure...go for the big Alpha cities like NYC or London (hope you're a high roller), and find out just how big the gap is between what they do well, and what they do very poorly.

    Don't wait...book a flight tonight...and have Xmas in your dream city.

    And please...now you can now tell me how all that translates into "Toronto is the best city in the world" one more time.



    Did you design the Crystal at the ROM? Just wondering.
     
  8. audiophilia

    audiophilia Well-Known Member

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    If a great view, gracious and relaxed hospitality, good portions of straight forward but well executed food, lots of foie, then I think Scaramouche would have fit the bill better than Canoe in th "feel good" category to take guests. It's Midtown instead of the Financial District, and worth getting in before they close in the next year after 30 years.

    Back to the restaurants.

    Scaramouche's sucks. It's definitely echt Toronto, though.

    Miss at all costs.
     
  9. EL72

    EL72 Well-Known Member

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    There's only thing worse than the usual ankle-biting anti-Toronto crowd from "elsewhere", is the phony apologetic Torontonian, who's really just an ex-pat Montrealer with the same bad attitude...touting the same meaningless phrases like "wannabe", and even when acknowledging the obvious strong points, needs to add a disclaimer to discredit it.

    Oy! This thread is so funny I almost choked on my latkes. Perhaps the only thing worse than the phony apologetic Torontonian is the defensive native Torontonian.

    I guess I'm another one of those ex-pat Montrealers because having just driven East on the 401 through a storm, I am appreciating the little things I've missed about Montreal: buying good beer at the supermarket or depanneur for nearly half the cost of Toronto (please no LCBO debate), and proper snow removal.

    My in-laws live on a side street and it was plowed four times yesterday morning! I live on one of the 4-5 main North-South arteries in Toronto (Avenue Rd.) where thousands of cars pass every hour and I'm lucky if the plow passes once before I have to shovel my way out the morning after a snowfall in Toronto. And the snow here will be gone within 2-3 days, carted off somewhere on dump trunks so we can travel and park on the streets.

    That said, having left Montreal 12 years ago, I'm quite happy in Toronto and despite having nearly all my family and friends in Montreal, I wouldn't move back. I don't know about nightlife anymore because my club-going days are long gone (think late '80s-early '90s St. Laurent for those that remember the Business and Disalvio's) but Toronto has just as much if not more entertainment to offer than Montreal. Plus, there is so much bullshit to deal with in Quebec that I wouldn't trade all the Toronto problems (of which there are many) for the kind of crap you have to deal with from an economic and political perspective in Quebec.
     
  10. GQgeek

    GQgeek Well-Known Member

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    you ever take transport in Montreal?

    Most of the stations are beyond disgusting.


    The only thing that really sucks about Toronto is the commute. If/when I move back there from montreal, I need a job that's on a subway line. I hate driving in traffic.
     
  11. West24

    West24 Well-Known Member

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    Fuck the separatists, ruined my pops in the late 70s. Toronto's a good city on the whole. nitpickers need to nitpick elsewhere. women in toronto are stuck up as fuck (probably tired of the 905ers yelling shit at them from civics/integras,etc), though sexy (i live in LA, its not half as bad, seriously). the ttc is great. the buses go to the stations, then you get on your subway, and maybe you have to take another bus to your final destination. and the buses run fairly regularly, so shut up about the ttc, their workers are another topic completely however. try getting around on the metro in LA if youre in town.

    oh shit! look at that, the buses go to the station! woop de fuckin do! no need for improvements guys! the buses go to the station! all is good now!
     
  12. freshcutgrass

    freshcutgrass Well-Known Member

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    But the "defensive Torontonian", is nothing more than the official villain stereotype in this game we play, not a player in the game. And we all know the "rules" of this game...only negative things about Toronto (known as the "Centre of the Universe" in the game) can be said or agreed with...and it doesn't matter how uneducated or absurd these things are, if you disagree, then you are a "defensive Torontonian". And if you happen to make any preemptive remarks that can be construed in any way as positive of Toronto, then it is to be mocked and dismissed as heresy immediately, and the accused found guilty of implying Toronto is "the best city in the world" (it doesn't matter that this has never actually ever been said or implied...there is no middle ground in this game).

    The predetermined outcome of this game (as per the designers of the game) is always supposed to be the same...Toronto sucks. The key to this game, is that the less credibility or knowledge you have, the better player you are. Any Torontonians aware of the game generally don't mind the game, or the fact they can't really participate as players in the game, as they accept their fate regarding resentment or ignorance (the motive behind the game), or they just don't care (most Torontonians are foreign born and generally don't have strong ties or feelings of pride for the city).

    Torontonians are not officially barred from playing the game, but as to not arouse suspicion from other players (like a black person pledging membership to the KKK), you will generally need to fall into one or more of these categories....extremely self defacing...suffer from "grass-is-greener" syndrome...be an ex-pat (Mtl or Van is best)...or simply masquerade as a Torontonian (like being from Burlington for instance)...or simply be unaware that you are playing the game at all (by simply pointing out or agreeing with a specific realistic criticism).



    Now here's someone who knows how to play the "game" !!

    Does this sound like a realistic assessment? Well...no, not outside the game. But it doesn't really matter what the motive is behind the statement, or the fact that we are unaware of your status that entitles you to make such blunt assessments...it fits the game perfectly...take any well established opinion, and say it's the complete opposite (please pass GO, and collect your $200 ). Restaurants are an easy target, as there's no empirical answer...just opinions, which can never really be "wrong".

    Seriously though, Scaramouche (not talking about the Pasta Bar here) enjoys its status for more than just the food. It's one of those comfy old stand-bys, serving up classic dishes and gracious service with reasonable consistency for nearly 30 years. It has an environment with a terrific view and is conversation-friendly, which is why it is favoured for business meetings and "romantic" dinners. It is where noted chefs have cut their teeth (Jamie Kennedy, Michael Stadtlander). I know, I know...in the "game" chefs like this are hacks, without enough combined talent to slather special sauce on a Big Mac. Part of its charm resides in the fact that it is located on the "hill" in Midtown, in a lovely, quiet upscale residential Avenue rd area, in an apartment building (One Benvenuto....a terrific early 50's modernist building designed by the very talented Peter Dickinson, who died very young).


    Yea...as if I were the ego of Daniel Libeskind, I'd feel it necessary to engage the rantings of some anonymous, chat forum mumbly-peg.

    Again, being serious, I think Libeskind has the ego and enough experience at being a "starchitect" to handle the inevitable backlash that is always going to follow him.

    Overall, I like his ROM addition. One... I like the juxtaposition of this design in terms of integrating the two older main structures, that are themselves of different eras, and that its "crystalline" structure ties in with exhibits of the museum. Two...I appreciate his theory which the inside space and the outside structure are one in the same, as well as the complexity of the design, which requires you take a closer inspection to figure out, when the "easy" approach is to simply see it as some "scrap pile". Three...it doesn't hurt to have these starchitect baubles here and there...shakes things up a bit, and certainly doesn't hurt attracting more people to the museum itself (which of course in the "game" is the shittiest museum on the planet, and not worthy of the effot in the first place).

    What I don't like about it, is that ultimately, this kind of space is not ideally suited to its intended purpose, which is for displaying museum exhibits.

    I'm surprised you didn't chime in on how crappy C5 is (or I suppose that one just goes with saying).
     
  13. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    There's only thing worse than the usual ankle-biting anti-Toronto crowd from "elsewhere"...

    This is the summation of the rabid Torontonian, as I think I pointed out about this guy in another thread. There is Toronto. There is "elsewhere."

    This thread has certainly warmed my heart. Thank you one and all. [​IMG]
     
  14. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    And please...now you can now tell me how all that translates into "Toronto is the best city in the world" one more time.

    http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.p...0&postcount=48

    I will grant you, your modifier was not "best," it was "cosmopolitan."

    [​IMG]
     
  15. kwilkinson

    kwilkinson Well-Known Member

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    Can't we all agree that it's just Canada, and outside of one or two cities, nobody really gives a fuck?
     
  16. SField

    SField Well-Known Member

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    Can't we all agree that it's just Canada, and outside of one or two cities, nobody really gives a fuck?

    And I do also think he implied that Toronto is better than Chicago...
     
  17. kwilkinson

    kwilkinson Well-Known Member

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    And I do also think he implied that Toronto is better than Chicago...

    Can't we all just agree that it's the Midwest, and outside of a city or two, nobody gives a fuck?
     
  18. eg1

    eg1 Well-Known Member

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    Torontonians are not officially barred from playing the game, but as to not arouse suspicion from other players (like a black person pledging membership to the KKK), you will generally need to fall into one or more of these categories....extremely self defacing...suffer from "grass-is-greener" syndrome...be an ex-pat (Mtl or Van is best)...or simply masquerade as a Torontonian (like being from Burlington for instance)...or simply be unaware that you are playing the game at all (by simply pointing out or agreeing with a specific realistic criticism).

    I saw what you did there! [​IMG]

    Yes, Toronto's relationship with the ROC ("rest of Canada" -- usually a term used to distinguish English speaking Canada from Quebec, but it fits here) is a fractured one. Your problem (well, one of them, at any rate), freshcut, is that you do not articulate very clearly how the various regions ("the hinterland" to Torontonians) despise Toronto for entirely different reasons. But like most Torontonians I know, you're likely tone-deaf to these variations because you will likely profess with pride your ignorance of rural Canada -- and that's a fuck of a lot of Canada about which to remain ignorant.

    Just to make my own biases clear, I misspent a good deal of my youth in Toronto and environs from the early '80s to the mid-90's. For a while there I kept moving closer and closer to the city (Oakville, Clarkson, Port Credit) but then changed course by settling permanently in Burlington. I think Toronto remains alluring to the young, but as a middle-aged father of two children under 7, I say you can keep it. I live on the GO line, if there is ever anything happening in Toronto that I just cannot miss -- such events grow fewer and fewer with each passing year. Many of my friends (and also my banker brother) have chosen to migrate to the city (Lawrence Park, primarily) and we carry on a playful dialogue along the lines of "Toronto is a Liberal haven of pinkos with gay pride parades every week/ the 905 is populated with mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging Conservative throwbacks". It's all in fun on the surface, but there are some value-driven choices being made and that's what ultimately fuels the "Toronto sucks/ Toronto is 'world class'" (a term never uttered, I suspect, in NYC, London, Paris, Tokyo etc.) divide.

    So, have a happy New Year -- even if it must be spent in Toronto ... [​IMG]
     
  19. audiophilia

    audiophilia Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little bored tonight, or, possibly the wine and port. That said, Burlington's even worse than TO. [​IMG] And where I live, worse than that. [​IMG] Back to Scaramouche and my ability to offer a valid assessment. I have been there three times, the first, as 30th anniversary dinner for my parents. A gelatinous amuse bouche, pretentious service, and main course worthy of Jack Astors (salmon and lamb). The 2nd and 3rd time there was as guest for business. Much of the same. I guess, about $1800 in all, which allows me an opinion. Canoe, North 44, Auberge du Pommier I have found to be superior in every way. Of course, none match Le Francais, La Grenouiile, Lutece, Daniel, Guy Savoy, Ducasse, etc. As for Toronto. I was just on Bloor St. today for the sales. For those not familiar with Hogtown, you could call it Madison very light. The service at Holt Renfrew (Canada's flagship upper echelon department store) was so dreadful, even my young son, just starting a high school job in sales commented on it without any initial comment from me (OT, had a sniff of several Creeds -- hmmm?). But Bloor has a parochial charm, if not the pavement, which was Detroit worthy in its shittiness -- glad I had 17s on. Oh, and don't forget the 7, yes 7 accidents on one side of the Gardiner/QEW (a five mile stretch). Cuz we're also home of the world's fucking worst drivers. Real retards. Happy to the keep the entertainment going. [​IMG] Anyway, back to the port.>>> [​IMG]
     
  20. SField

    SField Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little bored tonight, or, possibly the wine and port.

    That said, Burlington's even worse than TO. [​IMG] And where I live, worse than that. [​IMG]

    Back to Scaramouche and my ability to offer a valid assessment. I have been there three times, the first, as 30th anniversary dinner for my parents. A gelatinous amuse bouche, pretentious service, and main course worthy of Jack Astors (salmon and lamb). The 2nd and 3rd time there was as guest for business. Much of the same. I guess, about $1800 in all, which allows me an opinion. Canoe, North 44, Auberge du Pommier I have found to be superior in every way. Of course, none match Le Francais, La Grenouiile, Lutece, Daniel, Guy Savoy, Ducasse, etc.

    As for Toronto. I was just on Bloor St. today for the sales. For those not familiar with Hogtown, you could call it Madison very light. The service at Holt Renfrew (Canada's flagship upper echelon department store) was so dreadful, even my young son, just starting a high school job in sales commented on it without any initial comment from me (OT, had a sniff of several Creeds -- hmmm?). But Bloor has a parochial charm, if not the pavement, which was Detroit worthy in its shittiness -- glad I had 17s on.

    Oh, and don't forget the 7, yes 7 accidents on one side of the Gardiner/QEW (a five mile stretch). Cuz we're also home of the world's fucking worst drivers. Real retards.

    Happy to the keep the entertainment going.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, back to the port.>>>

    [​IMG]


    Don't expect a reasonable or logical reply to any of those statements.
     

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