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TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever.

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by impolyt_one, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. Dbear

    Dbear Well-Known Member

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    I like thin leathers that feel like shit. Don't tell me that it aint quality because its totally subjective bruh
     
  2. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Even in the bolded part, these days, it's not that clear. For example, in the Guidi+Rosselini line, which is Guidi's line to highlight their leather, they use the entire hide, so that the thickness of the leather should be expected, as a deliberate choice, to be uneven. And there are plenty of tanneries for which the inconsistencies in the hide and the variations in the color, rather than uniformity of color, are the highlight, like the oak tannage of the Bakers of Coylton. And some of the best leathers in the world feel "plasticky". I have some of french polished calf samples here, the same that Hermes uses for some small leather goods, and the finish is hard and stiff. You go to an Hermes boutique, and they look and feel great. But to an untrained eye, outside of the confines of great visual merchandising, If I threw a bunch of random wallets in a bin, I would bet that a lot of people would pick the "wrong" wallet.

    In one interview, @kiya directly addressed something in a way that made my clap. If you are looking for consistency and uniformity, get some jeans from a top tier, high tech, factory in China. The QA/QC is better there, tolerances can be set very low, you are using the best of the new and old (like polycore thread), and you are off to the races. But if you are looking for a story and some soul, then maybe get some jeans from Self Edge.

    As @dieworkwear said, there is definitely a lower limit for quality. For example, a few days ago, I had a cheapo American Apparel thermal literallly unravel from the hem to the write cuff. One single pull. But, assuming no catastrophy, yes, treat clothes more like food and less like a piece of machinery. The first thing when a plate comes to your table? "Does it look good? Does it look appetizing?" Then, you eat it. "Does it taste good. Does it have some depth and balance of flavors?" Yes, you may pick out some interesting notes "Huh, cinnamon and citrus in the sugo. That's pretty unexpected and really works," and that is great for conversation, and shows the care the thought behind the dish. But please, please, please, treat the dish, or in this case, clothes, as a whole, and appreciate it on its merits.
     
    3 people like this.
  3. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    As you all know by now, probably, I like leather jackets that are like armor - as in - can stop a Doberman from breaking your skin. One of the best leathers I've ever owned was by one of those artisanal brands that we like to talk about here. It was also cut very well, and would have fit any number of body shapes, which is sorta an oddity in that particular genre. But I never got comfortable in it, since it felt like I had to treat it like gossamer. Ugh. I eventually just gave it to my brother, who I also gave a bunch of beautiful, but really fragile, Marni shirts. He feels fine with them, and has never torn a single one, even after years of wear. There was nothing objectively wrong with the jacket. It's just that I never meshed with it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  4. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    This is fairly low level humor. If it were a jacket, it would be sold on eBay by some store called YesStyle, modeled on a shiny black mannequin and coming to you from some place in East Asia.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  5. Dbear

    Dbear Well-Known Member

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    Are you implying that low level humor is somehow inferior or of less quality than whatever high brow stuff you enjoy?
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Should say that I've seen some pretty decent Goodyear welted shoes come out of Mexico. Some of Yuketen's stuff is made there, and while it lacks the the finish of, say, Edward Greens, or of the Yuketen x Heschng collaborations, they work well for what they are supposed to be - sturdy, often deliberately a little clunky and a little odd, oxfords.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Distorbiant

    Distorbiant Well-Known Member

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    I'd be okay with thin or thick lamb or whatever.

    My problem is the consistency. I don't want to buy something expecting one thing and receive the other.

    That's one drawback TOJ has compared to mainstream brands.
     
  8. Dbear

    Dbear Well-Known Member

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    You get thin lamb if you ask for it
     
  9. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Alt:
    [​IMG]

    TOJ (shaved calf)
    Versace
    Gitman
    ZAMB
    CCP
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
    7 people like this.
  10. Dbear

    Dbear Well-Known Member

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    Wats it look like zipped and a little farther from the mirror
     
  11. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    I actually don't really care for thick lambskins, but ordered a ToJ in one cause people seem to like them so much that I wanted to try them out.

    The ones from RLPL and the like however often feel a bit rubbery to me. Thin lambskins tear easily, but I like the feel a bit better.

    Incidentally, I saw someone in San Francisco the other day with what looked to be Guidi boots. They looked so damn good.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  12. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    That was actually a specific test for a specific type of durability, and so although that is a useful check on overly assertive discussions about "quality". It's noteworthy that textile science, while the use of material science testing techniques may be useful, may also not be able to provide an objective meaure of what you really want to know about a fabric.

    And in more cases, it's very probable that the measurement you seek has never been made. For example, I'd also like the know the strength decrease and the exposure to further damage, from a single point of damage. This is the evidently important in workwear, or else we would not have materials like broken twills and ripstop nylons. I like to take a more a priori approach to all of these objective measures. However, it's unlikely that these tests have been done, or will be done, to suiting wool.

    But... we digress. Yet again.
     
  13. smashwindow

    smashwindow Well-Known Member

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    Moo that jacket is too small for you sell it too me.
     
  14. Joona

    Joona Well-Known Member

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    Probably true, but you may also end up with thin lamb without asking for it.
     
  15. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Well-Known Member

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    Looks great.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. rbnman

    rbnman Well-Known Member

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    I asked for thick lamb for the mrs BCDR. They couldn't guarantee it so went with calf.
     
  17. misterswag

    misterswag Well-Known Member

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    Daypack update anyone?
     
  18. nichet

    nichet Active Member

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    still waiting on my refund - anyone else?
     
  19. max-t

    max-t Well-Known Member

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  20. Death24xASecond

    Death24xASecond Well-Known Member

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    Wait, what? You can specifically ask for thick lamb? I mean, I initially asked for clarification from TOJ when ordering (I'd read comments about the lamb being fragile/thin) and was assured that this would not be a concern. Didn't know anything about specifying thicker lambskin.
     

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