1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Things you just don't get

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by tiecollector, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    33,325
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    I don't think "hipster" is a "counter" culture.
     
  2. Claghorn

    Claghorn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,005
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Location:
    Texas.
    But don't most counter cultures have some set of norms which sets them apart, making them counter culture? They are deliberately and visibly reacting to some element of society with a sense of purpose. I don't get that feeling with hipsters. There is an absence of purpose and they are reacting merely for the sake of reacting (which makes the whole idea of "not buying in" to the mainstream farcically self-defeating).
     
  3. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    33,325
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    I think not buying into the mainstream has just become incredibly easy because of how fucking awful it is. If the mainstream were something of taste and substance a hipster would have a different meaning.
     
  4. Claghorn

    Claghorn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,005
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Location:
    Texas.
    Mainstream in the expansive sense. Any preference which wouldn't raise an eyebrow (for example: not wearing jeans which are skin tight...or cut off mid thigh)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  5. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    50,191
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2006
    Location:
    In My Douchemobile
    

    I see what you're saying but still think it's a counter culture. Since the boom of the 1980s on Wall St. "purpose" is important in general society. Think the whole, "Your child's future is based on what pre-school they get into," Tiger Moms, the race for multiple extracurriculars, grad degree becoming almost mandatory type trends over the last 20-30 years. The avowed lack of purpose is their reaction to what they feel is an overly programmed society.
     
  6. Claghorn

    Claghorn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,005
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Location:
    Texas.
    I agree that its a counterculture (pB is the one who says it isn't...probably because he's a closet hipster). And an interesting observation as to what they are reacting to. I just think that "hipster" going mainstream is more ironic (ha ha) than other countercultures becoming mainstream.

    Oh shit. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's their big joke.

    Well played, hipsters, well played.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  7. E TF

    E TF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    999
    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Location:
    Herts, U.K.
    

    This reminds me of something I saw at the airport coming home from holiday last week - a really obviously hipster couple (or european variation thereof) with two young kids (maybe 4 and 5) queueing for security. Thing is, they had brought their kids instruments with them (looked like violin and guitar cases). I know plenty of non-hipster parents with tonnes of ambition for their kids, but none, I think, would bother to take their 4 & 5 year old's instruments skiing. I think this couple were super ambitious that their kids should be musical in a hip way. It was probably a fiddle rather than a violin.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    33,325
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    

    In the words of Voxsartoria, I am a "Graduated Hipster".
     
    2 people like this.
  9. MrG

    MrG Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,173
    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Location:
    On This Lonely Road, Tryin' to Make it Home
    

    :laugh:


    :slayer:

    Damn The Man! Save The Empire!

    By the way, I'm totally stealing this, and, given you're a dude I know from an internet forum about men's fashion, I'll only be attributing it to "this guy I know." Just thought I should disclose that.


    Sorry, pB, but this isn't a novel concept. We said the same thing when I was in high school in the 90s. We weren't hipsters, mind you, but the logic was exactly the same. We called the kids who embraced mainstream "culture" "trendies."

    Thinking the mainstream sucks is a fundamental part of rejecting it, given no one would reject it if they didn't think it sucked.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  10. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    33,325
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    But here is the thing. The mainstream in the 60's and 70's was kind of awesome in its own right. You're a douche if you didn't like it. Today the quality of the mainstream has taken a nosedive. I don't think today's hipsters are about rejecting the mainstream, maybe it began that way, but now it is more or less people who have a certain taste. They are saying, hey I go out of my way to find something worthwhile.
     
  11. MrG

    MrG Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,173
    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Location:
    On This Lonely Road, Tryin' to Make it Home
    You're viewing it all with nostalgic retrospection because it was 40 years ago and you've only been presented with the cool parts.

    Unless you take a very broad view of mainstream, the 60s and 70s were terrible. Yes, the 60s had the hippies, but they were the counterculture. In fact, the 60s all but invented counterculture. The mainstream sucked so bad that the hippies had to invent a new concept.

    The 70s weren't any better. In fact, aside from a smattering of decent rock bands and the emergence of punk (which wasn't perfected until later and existed specifically because the 70s sucked so bad), the 70s were a cultural wasteland. Actually, the 70s might be the worst cultural decade, both mainstream and otherwise, in recorded history.

    The mainstream, by virtue of the fact that it is designed to cater to the lowest common denominator, is going to be reliably terrible, regardless of era, and the young people who sit on the outside are always going to be convinced that the current era is the wooooorst. I know we were. We were certain that the 90s were the nadir of popular culture. After all, I was young and countercultural during the rise of the 90s boys bands, and we didn't think anything could ever be any more mainstream or shitty than that. Now the young counterculture is saying the exact same thing about the 2010s. It's all a cycle.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  12. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    50,191
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2006
    Location:
    In My Douchemobile
    The 60s did not invent counter culture. It's just the Boomers have once again been selling us younger folks on how their generation was THE OMFG BEST EVER! and many of us have bought it. Beatniks, flappers, zoot suites....and those are just three I can rattle off. I bet Fuuma could supply us with 20 counter cultures from upper Mongolia ;)
     
    3 people like this.
  13. MrG

    MrG Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,173
    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Location:
    On This Lonely Road, Tryin' to Make it Home
    I thought about the pre-60s when I typed that out, but I still think the 60s were transformative to pop culture history, even without the Boomer revisionist narrative.

    I probably pushed it too far by saying the 60s invented the counterculture, but it was certainly a pivotal moment.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Rambo

    Rambo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    27,312
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Location:
    I'M IN MIAMI, BITCH
    There's way too many fuckkng numbers in these posts
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. Bhowie

    Bhowie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,099
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Location:
    Running the trap house.
    

    There are numerous examples of art movements that were counter to the prevailing attitude before this. It is an important human characteristic to push aside the old in search of new. I sort of think hipsters are important for this. Discarding things just because they can seems a rather pure demonstration of this.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Harold falcon

    Harold falcon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    27,420
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Location:
    NE PA
    


    Wasn't this pretty much the premise for Woody Allen's Midnight in Paris?
     
  17. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    50,191
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2006
    Location:
    In My Douchemobile
    

    Excellent reference.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Bhowie

    Bhowie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,099
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Location:
    Running the trap house.
    In short, Mr. G is an idiot.
     
  19. MrG

    MrG Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,173
    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Location:
    On This Lonely Road, Tryin' to Make it Home
    For what it's worth, the term "counterculture" was coined in the late 60s as a reference to the hippies. It has since been applied to retroactively to other groups, but the 60s counterculture is the very reason the term exists in the first place. So, again, while it was not the first phenomenon we'd consider a counterculture, the hippie "movement" was a watershed moment in the dynamic between mainstream and non-mainstream popular culture.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  20. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    21,813
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    
    Some of these folks might beg to differ:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]]
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by