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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. dddrees

    dddrees Well-Known Member

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    Amazing, simply amazing.

    Well done sir.
     
  2. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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  3. no frills

    no frills Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the kind words. That's pretty much the extent of my small collection - three Pateks (3940P, 5040J, 5711/1A) and one Rolex (114270, Explorer I). The madness of collecting came over me about two months ago and that's when I went through my purchases and trades (used to have two Calatravas in the stable too), but this current set gave me a measure of peace. I still look at what's out there (and for some strange reason, my AD and grey market dealers send me offers every week), but I don't feel that compelling urge to get another piece or trade in one I currently have. I am not sure how long this will last, though haha.

    If there's any theme to what I'm currently looking at (but not immediately getting), it's a chronograph. I'm thinking of getting either a Rolex Daytona (I'm attracted to either the 16520 with a white dial / Zenith movement or the updated 116520 version with an in-house movement) or an Omega Speedmaster Pro (if I go this route I'd like a transparent caseback so I guess that would be the 3573.5 or the like). I like the history, workmanship and aesthetics of these two.

    Of course there is also the appeal of a Patek perpetual calendar chronograph like the 3970 or the 5970, but these are six-figure watches (pre-owned or not) and that price point does make me pause. :)

    Any thoughts from you guys re: Rolex Daytona 16520 or 116520 versus the Omega Speedy Pro with a display back? Inputs always appreciated.
     
  4. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    Dino and academe, excellent posts, i really enjoyed reading them.

    i was very glad to see that my love for AP is shared, and you guys were able to really explain more than i did what is so great about the AP marque. as well, it was cool that 2 of the watches that academe posted, were ones i chose to highlight as well on my earlier post.

    also, you both reminded me, that when i said i first got into watches at 20, i really meant high end watches. my love for watches started probably around 9 or 10 with my calculator watch, then i got a few nicer dress watches for my bar mitzvah, followed by my first "fancy" watch, an esq when i was 15. from there i started learning about jlc and iwc and so i continued deeper down the rabbit hole.

    as well, dino, you reminded me about all the watch catalogues i ordered, i cant believe i forgot that. that was one of the biggest learning instruments i had. i went and found the phone number to every watch company i could think of and called to ask for a catalogue. i still have them, well over 100. i learned a tremendous amount reading through them (many of them really are books, not catalogues. funny though that rolex and patek have the skimpiest ones ime). between the pictures of all the models, the watch write ups, and the history write ups as well, i probably took the biggest chunk of my watch learning from those catalogues.

    in short, i love watches.
     
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  5. Cylon

    Cylon Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I prefer the 3572--you have a hesalite front and a sapphire caseback. More important for me though is the fact the wording on the back states "first watch worn on the moon," whereas the 3573 states, "the first and only watch worn on the moon."

    This discrepancy was curious to me so I did a little investigation

    For those who do not wish to click, here's the relevant info:

    Quote:
    This was of critical importance to me. I understand Omega relies heavily on their NASA heritage and thats OK, but cmon theres no need to make stuff up. If I couldn't locate a 3572, I would have purchased the solid caseback version.

    As for daytonas, not particularly my cup of tea so I don't know much about them. Dino can probably fill you in [​IMG]

    ..but for bang for buck factor my vote is w the speedy[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  6. no frills

    no frills Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this pretty critical input: I'm a big Patek fan but I don't think I'm a crazed "only Patek for me" devotee. But a big part of what attracted me to the Speedy Pro is its history, and if the 3573.5 shows a bit of exaggeration then that's a no-no for me.

    Any idea about the durability of the hesalite front versus sapphire crystal re: scratches and nicks? Or does it not matter much?

    The 3592.5 also has a caseback - and looks historically accurate. :)
     
  7. Cylon

    Cylon Well-Known Member

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    It took me a long time to decide on hesalite v sapphire. If you google it, there are many discussions on many forums about the subject.

    You can look on it on multiple levels:

    1. historically accurate--not just for the caseback but the front as well! NASA used hesalite because it wouldn't shatter. Glass shards and sensitive electronics do not make for a smooth ride.

    2. you get a slight distortion around the edges of the hesalite when looking at the dial. Again not for everyone, but I must admit its charming.

    3. milky ring--the sapphire glass has a milky white ring around the edge which I did not like so much (and no distortion).

    4. scuffs on hesalite--thats true but polywatch will fix it. Also hesalite is much cheaper to replace so even if it bothers you itll cost much less. And frankly it looks cool in its own way.

    I think if I were you i'd say this: you already have plenty of beautiful pristine dress watches. It's time to get a lil down and dirty with a hesalite speedy tool watch
     
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  8. no frills

    no frills Well-Known Member

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    You make a rather compelling argument. Let's see what I can do about finding a 3572.5.
     
  9. Cylon

    Cylon Well-Known Member

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    Apologies for completely forgetting about the 3592 point

    the diff is:

    3592 uses the 863 caliber and is in yellow gilt

    3572 uses 1863 caliber and is rhodium plated
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  10. Dino944

    Dino944 Well-Known Member

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    Glad you enjoyed them. I think its fun to see how brands marketed their products, how they viewed us as consumers, and to see vintage styles and prices.

    Your 5711 is very handsome...to bad you couldn't take its photo next to Capt. Nemo's Nautiuls.
     
  11. MSchott

    MSchott Active Member

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    Yes AP makes a lot of sort of blingy LE watches but if you see one up close, the quality is immediately evident. They make nearly all their movements in-house now and their haute horology department is among the best. It would be a mistake not to rate them at a level with PP and VC.
     
  12. MSchott

    MSchott Active Member

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    There are many great chronographs on the market. Uses Daytona's can be pricey beyond their value as a watch but will maintain their resale value. Speedy Pro's are fine and classic pieces but IMO nothing special.

    If I were you I'd look for an actual Zenith with the El Primero movement. Rolex slowed the movement from 36,000 VPH to 28,800 VPH for some reason, possibly to meet some reliability standard but the El Primero is known to be extremely reliable at it's designed speed. It also makes the movement more interesting. I own a Class Sport El Primero hand wind and it's a great watch. Let me offer 3 other choices, all with the wonderful FP 1185 integrated chronograph movement. One is a Blancpain Leman Flyback, either in the older 38mm case of the more recent 40mm case with large date, the VC Overseas Chronograph like the one shown a few posts above or the AP Royal Oak chronograph which is a spectacular watch. I am not referring to the Offshore chronograph by the way which uses a chronograph module on top of an AP movement.
     
  13. academe

    academe Well-Known Member

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    Pity that Waltham has never really been able to capitalise on this bit of trivia...Funny to think that they don't even appear on many WIS radars. I had to look them up to find out more!
     
  14. ThinkDerm

    ThinkDerm Well-Known Member

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    where/who do you buy from?
     
  15. Cylon

    Cylon Well-Known Member

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    I dunno about yall but I buy from a guy on the corner with a trenchcoat full of great watches
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  16. Dino944

    Dino944 Well-Known Member

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    +1

    VC makes some great dress watches, but but at this point I think both Patek and AP offer slightly higher quality in finishing and materials.

    Overall I think each of the "Big Three" have a strong history for producing watches superb watches and for being creative. Each seems to appeal to a different type of watch afficionado, although there are pieces from each that one can't help but love even if one is a dedicated VC fan, PP fan, or AP fan.

    As for brand ambassodors I think they have little meaning, at least to me. Afterall, they are bought an paid for. Its not the same as a celebrity buying a watch using his own money because he really likes it or it meets his needs...at least then it might have some meaning...although I'm not someone that would be motivated to buy a watch, a car or anthying else just because a famous person has one.
     
  17. dddrees

    dddrees Well-Known Member

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    In regards to the Daytona, the price for a Zenith can run about the same amount as a new one. I think most would agree the in house movement is technichally better. However I think most who chose the Zenith version tend to believe the dial on this version is more aesthetically pleasing. The seconds sub dial is in a different location and the sub dials on the white face are black instead of silver. The bracelet on the latest version includes the improved clasp and solid end links. I chose the latest version, and have not looked back once.The while dial tends to be easier to read than the black dial version.

    I also have a Speedy Pro with a exhibition case back. I often look at the movement of this watch. It simply looks amazing. The Speedy Pro is quite a bit easier to read than the Daytona, and this is due to the contrast of colors on the dial.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  18. Dino944

    Dino944 Well-Known Member

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    Glad you enjoyed my post on AP.

    My first good watch was an Omega Seamaster in the 1980s...it was a gift and I was about 12. When I was around 13, I seemed to eat, sleep and dream Rolex. So I convinced my parents to let me cash some bonds from my Bar Mitzvah and I bought an all steel GMT Master with black bezel. I would wear it out to dinner with my parents or at home on the weekend. I didn't start wearing it until I was a junior in high school. Even when I was in school and didn't have money to spend on watches I was still looking at them and collecting catalogs.

    I still have many of my old catalogs, and when I was growing up my walls didn't just have car posters on the walls,they had watch advertisements. I would check my parents New York Times Sunday Paper and NYT Magazine for watch advertisements cut them out and put them on my walls. I had ads on my walls from AP, Rolex, Corum, Concord, VC, Patek, Piaget etc. Now I have a bonus room above the garage for my watch reference matterials and I still enjoy going through them when I have some spare time.
     
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  19. Cylon

    Cylon Well-Known Member

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    dear god thats hardcore

    my first watch was a transformers watch. I lost it while playing with it on the toilet bowl. It fell in and i couldnt bring myself to fish it out.

    Then i got a mickey mouse watch for my kindergarten graduation. It was mickey on a motorcycle. youd rotate the bezel to reveal the digital time.

    then i had a long hiatus--dunno why.

    in HS and college I had a citizen eco drive solar powered watch. It was cool. Id love to be able to find it. I stopped wearing it thinking I was being too flashy with it and my oakley sunglasses.

    Then i got the MUT moon for my wedding

    and the speedy pro for my first kid

    I have no idea where to head next, and I think I am craving some sort of direction
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
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  20. Dino944

    Dino944 Well-Known Member

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    The Daytona and the Speedy Pro are both excellent choices, and any of them should provide you with many years of good service and enjoyment. I have owned a few Daytonas both the 16520s with Zenith based movement and the 116520 with in house movement. Each is a great watch, they just depend on your needs and what you want. See my comments below.
    I've owned a few 16520 Zenith based Daytonas and inhouse movment 116520 Daytonas. Each has its strong points and both are great watches. I think which is better just depends on a persons taste and use.


    The 116520 (inhouse movement)has a longer power reserve, better bracelet, and better clasp. If you are just going to bang around it in as a casual watch, it will certainly do the trick. If you are considering pre-owned there are 2 versions, the early models about year 2000-2004, which I find the least attractive. They had made the luminous markers on the dial wider for better viewing in low light conditions, but they kept the same hands from the prior Daytona model. That is the thin hand model, I find the hands and markers on the dial a bit missmatched on that version. Then from about late 2004 or early 2005 they changed the hands to and made them thicker and I find they look better suited for newer dial with larger hour markers...this is often referred to as the fat hand model. Other differnces between these and the prior model (beyond the movement) are all subdials were shifted upward slightly on the dial and the continuous seconds hand is in the subdial at 6 o'clock. I will say my first which was an early thin hand purchased new, did give me some problems with the chronograph, and it did have to go back under warranty to be repaired. I hadn't worn it in 6 months and when I went to used it when I would engage the chronograph mechanism, the large sweep hand would go around once and the minute counter hand would move in increments of 5 to 10 minutes. I sold this one and bought a fat hands version and had no problems, also never had a problem with any of my Zenith based versions.

    The 16520 (Zenith based movement), is a more collectible watch (production numbers I believe were much lower, due to Rolex relying on an outside company for the base movement, and there are several variations). The earliest models had bezels calibrated only to 200 and the word Cosmograph is separated from the Superlative Chronometer writing. These are among the rarest. I believe these also did not have the oyster lock clasp, and the bracelets were complete brushed. There are other variations that come along like the "Patrizzi" dialed Daytonas where the white subdials turned brown with a lot of exposure to sunlight due to a defect in the dial...these are very expensive and sought after by collectors. Then there is the orientation of the 6, 9 and shape of numbers in the subdials. All of these had old style Clamshell bracelets except for the last serial numerbs that start with I believe an "A," which got solid end links. Also, around 1992/93 the clasp became an oyster lock (safety latch clasp). Thats just the "Cliff's Notes" version of variations and why some people collect these and values have gone up roughly 2-3 times the original MSRP in some cases. I wore a 16520 everyday for 5 years, and it was dead on accurate and took whatever punishment I could dish out. Personally, I think they are the better looking of the 2 "modern Daytonas." I think the smaller lum markings on dial and thin hands look better than that of the 116520, and I like that the subdials are symetrically placed on the dial rather than shifted upward, and I like the subdial colors black and white, more than silver...but those are just personal taste. The movment in the Zenith based Daytonas had several changes, the largest being a reduction in beats per hour from 36,600 to 28,800 for better reliability and servicability. There are a bunch of other changes that were made that really make the movement probably the most labor intensive movement in terms of hand workmanship that has come out of Rolex in the last 20 years or that will come out in the future. If someone wants to know those changes let me know, I have a list at home....otherwise no need to get into that right now. Overall, the white dial of either version is easier to read(I've owned both colors), but for some reason I've always favored the black dial. If someone likes the hunt of searching for a watch, then searching for really rare versions it will provide a project as it will probably take some time as many collectors have already snapped them up.

    In the end both Daytonas are great. I've enjoyed each them.
     
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