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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mimo, Feb 12, 2016.

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  1. bkotsko

    bkotsko Well-Known Member

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    Changing the conversation up to something more ubiquitous...
    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. tim_horton

    tim_horton Well-Known Member

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    I see your points, but (realistically) you can't commission a watch the way you would a bespoke suit. If someone was in the market for a two-handed dress watch, it's doubtful they will find something that ticks 100% of all of their boxes. A movement that is a couple of mm undersized isn't a very big concession (for some) in a watch that may otherwise satisfy all of the criteria that they are looking for.

    I was looking at two-handed dress watches a while back ... it seemed like the majority of them were 39mm or above (a bigger issue for me than a movement that's somewhat undersized, especially since there is no subdial to betray it) or aesthetically weren't what I was looking for (Calatrava 5120). I'd take a Saxonia Thin 37mm with a movement a couple of millimeters undersized over a Saxonia Thin at 40mm with a perfectly sized movement (if one existed.)

    That being said, $15,000 is a huge investment for a watch (assuming you have to buy it new, but why would you?!?), so you have to be sure you love the watch in spite of its faults.
     
  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Other simple gold dress watches for ~$15K retail:

    Reverso Grand Taille ($15,800)
    [​IMG]

    Geophysic True Second ($17,500)
    [​IMG]

    Cartier Tank Louis Cartier Extra Flat (~$18,000)
    [​IMG]

    Vacheron Patrimony Traditionelle Small Seconds ($19,500)
    [​IMG]

    IWC Portuguese Handwound 8-Days ($20,000)
    [​IMG]
     
  4. tim_horton

    tim_horton Well-Known Member

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    Those are all great pieces. I had been specifically looking for dress watches without a seconds hand, though, which narrowed the field a bit (and I wound up not getting anything.)
     
  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Can highly recommend that Tank. It was a joy.
     
  6. mimo

    mimo Well-Known Member

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    "You can't really believe..." Is that how you normally speak to people you don't know? Put your dick away, mate.

    What I said is that high brand awareness through ubiquitous advertising makes for a strong used market as well as higher new prices. Nevertheless you've made me think about the top end at auction, too: not every collector is knowledgeable, nor are many knowledgeable folks in the market to spend "hundreds of thousands or more on a single watch at auction". It is a fact that all buyers of such watches are rich, but a speculation that they favour the maker based primarily on great knowledge.

    I would hypothesise that millionaires who get a new hobby are just as likely as poor people to buy the brand they know, and that they know their friends know. What would be your best guess as to what a wealthy "impressionable neophyte" looking for an impressive vintage watch, would want to buy?

    What I would not argue is that in this case, they are indeed buying a good one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  7. Nikolaus

    Nikolaus Well-Known Member

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    You can look at Chopard Luc; Rolex Cellini is also elegant.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. mimo

    mimo Well-Known Member

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    I'd suggest a used 1815. They also come in small. [​IMG]
     
  9. Nikolaus

    Nikolaus Well-Known Member

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  10. Nikolaus

    Nikolaus Well-Known Member

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    pre-shrunk? [​IMG]
     
  11. Dino944

    Dino944 Well-Known Member

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    I haven't looked at the Tradititionelle Small Seconds in some time. However, I don't recall thinking the movement looked too small for the case. You may want to take another look at the Hodinkee article comparing the VC, Lange and Journe...just for some perspective. There is a photo showing the backs/movements of all three together. While the metal section of the VC case back isn't the narrowest on the market, its the case diameter is the size as a PP 5296, but the VC movement's diameter is larger 28.6 rather than 27mm. Anyway, no right or wrong, if you feel the movement in the VC would be too small for you that cool...I just think there are many watches out there that are worse small movement to case size ratio offenders than VC (or the 5296...just used that for comparison sake).

    Always a pleasure to see another RO.
    Mine says hello
    [​IMG]


    Lots of possibilities for dress watches without seconds hands, a few additional pieces to consider the Piaget Altiplano, Cartier Tank XL, VC, JLC Master Ultra Thin, AP Jules Audemars, etc.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. troika

    troika Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys, what's the number of this AP RO? 41mm with blue textured dial? Trying to aim for this in about 3 years after finishing grad school
     
  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    15202
     
  14. DLJr

    DLJr Well-Known Member

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    The one in Dino's picture is the 15202 and is 39mm. The 15400 is 41mm.
     
  15. troika

    troika Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys, gonna start researching this further on. Currently thinkin about this or a coke gmt. A gmt is my fav complication, but I love the rugged simplicity of the RO...
     
  16. Omega Male

    Omega Male Well-Known Member

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    The Traditionelle Small Seconds is a 29 mm movement in a 38 mm case and the (new smaller) Saxonia Thin is a 28 mm movement in a 37 mm case, so it's a wash.

    There are far worse offenders like the Patek 5196 (already mentioned) or VC Patrimony, which has a 21 mm movement in a 40 mm case.

    Out of interest, which comparable dress watches in the 36/37/38 size range do have "appropriately sized" movements, if that was to be the deal breaker?
     
  17. dopey

    dopey Well-Known Member

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    Very interested in the responses
     
  18. DLJr

    DLJr Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, I don't mind movements which aren't "appropriately sized" assuming it isn't obvious on the dial and they use a solid case back. For me, it's more an issue of being able to see it and that visual irking me. Just find it visually unappealing.
     
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  19. Keith T

    Keith T Well-Known Member

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    Same here. And I hate to just say ,"out of sight, out of mind", but there IS an element of truth to that.

    For example, I've really always favored this version of the Altiplano (38 mm), as mentioned before ... but it has their 430P movement in it, which is "only" 20.5 mm.

    [​IMG]


    That wasn't really a personal deal-breaker for me, but ultimately I went with a different watch.
     
    3 people like this.
  20. UnFacconable

    UnFacconable Well-Known Member

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    Same here. I agree generally that oversized cases with smaller movements is less than ideal but it seems like we may be cherrypicking.

    I have a Nomos Tangomat GMT which has a 31MM movement in a 40MM case. From reading the last few pages, that seems like perhaps an acceptable differential although the small seconds subdial is somewhat close to the center. I have a couple of sport watches with 10-11MM differentials which I would assume would be bad, but they are oyster cased watches (GMTII and Explorer) so I'm going to assume most would give them a pass. Is that because of the nature of the oyster case or because they're Rolexes? I would point to the nature of the Oyster case and the fact that it has functional advantages, but those don't apply to Rolex Cellinis with their 10MM+ differences in movement to case size.

    Then Mafoo posts a number of alternative $15k precious metal watches but a few of them (VC and JLC) seem to have just as large a gap between case and movement size.
     
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