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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mimo, Feb 12, 2016.

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  1. Cleav

    Cleav Well-Known Member

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    looks good @Steel28
     
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  2. Belligero

    Belligero Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting to get that impression about this one; it's barely been off the wrist since it came back from service except for last weekend's house move:

    [​IMG]

    The newer version hardly gets worn now. Funny how a few small details make all the difference.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016
    3 people like this.
  3. Dino944

    Dino944 Well-Known Member

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    The newer version is a great watch and technically is far superior...but if I could only keep one, I'd keep the 16520. Love that watch!

    [​IMG]
     
    4 people like this.
  4. ShawnBC

    ShawnBC Well-Known Member

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    ^^ I love the white-faced Daytona! Especially the non-ceramic!
     
  5. ericgereghty

    ericgereghty Well-Known Member

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    It's a sexy piece, to be sure.
     
  6. Thin White Duke

    Thin White Duke Well-Known Member

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    Me too - my next and hopefully last big watch spend.

    Belligerent if you have a 116520 for sale make me an offer I can't refuse!
     
  7. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Well-Known Member

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    So I've become obsessed with ochs und junior watches. Sure, it's an ETA-based watch for $7K+, but they're just so cool and different from anything else out there. Fully customizable as well. Anyone handle one of these watches in the metal? What were your impressions?
     
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  8. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Well-Known Member

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    I'm having trouble with your reply because again you seem to be attributing something to what I posted that just isn't there, and that's after I have already clarified some points. I'm simply saying that a strategy, which would be part of an overall strategy, that makes sense would be to in part limit production. I'm not saying watchmakers should make more limited editions or limit every edition, but I'd say that generally it's pretty clear that supply is greater than demand and that generally there is discounting going on in part as result. Limiting production would likely lead to them realizing greater margins as I noted earlier.

    While I agree that economies of scale might be an issue for some watchmakers, I already addressed that in my last post. Of course they'd have to find the sweet spot which might take some time, but I'd say it's pretty clear that what they're doing in terms of production already isn't working, especially if they're moving pieces to grey dealers.

    I agree that certain limited editions, especially like the JLCs you referenced that are over $25k, already don't necessarily sell. However I wasn't referring specifically to those. In fact I'd say that watches over $10k don't seem to sell that well either.

    I like the watches that I like, whether they're limited editions or not. I certainly prefer them as I think anyone would in terms of having something that was produced in lower numbers, but that hardly influences my decision to buy. Take for example my Reverso 1931. I nearly went for the "standard" edition, but in the end decided I preferred the limited edition. As for my being price sensitive, I am a very competitive and savvy shopper and so I get discounts on almost everything I buy. However as regards watches I'm price sensitive more so because for the most part my means force me to be. Still with my purchases thus far I've paid close enough to full retail as I had little choice considering the availability of the pieces, and that was in the grey market. In fact in the case of my Reverso I'm under the impression that I paid at least full retail and likely more. Anyway, I think that every limited edition that has thus far interested me, whether I own it not, has been very well done.

    I wasn't saying that limited editions put a piece on par with Patek. I also wasn't saying that being a limited edition elevates a watch or brand. In fact I specifically said that if the piece was must have, and that needs to come first and also suggests it's not just about being limited in production, that the more limited it is the likely they'd realist better margins. Of course you run the risk of missing out on sales if you make it too limited, but that's a mistake that I'm sure they'd be more comfortable with than overproducing a piece and selling at a bigger discount while also being left with excess inventory.

    I also didn't refer to more limited editions of pieces we already have. I agree that at some point people generally will say something like "I already have three Speedmasters." I'm not saying make more of those models. I was referring in part to producing new models that are limited editions.

    Brands can go back to that price range though. Of course there are ways of doing that and they'd have to be very careful in how they do it, but it could work. Either way I, again, wasn't referring to specific brands but to the industry in general. Those brands that may not want to enter that range for multiple reasons could still produce watches that are cheaper than what they already produce. As has been noted in this thread and I think by yourself, prices have increased steadily over the years and there's room for some regression.

    Not sure what you're really trying to say and why you're doing down the meme road, but again I never offered limited editions and limiting production as the only answer. However I'd say it's an obvious approach that should be considering as part of an overall strategy. I'd also add that there are plenty of limited editions that have been well done and that are great watches because of what they are and not at all because they're limited.
     
  9. scottcw

    scottcw Well-Known Member

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    Why, yes. Love my annual calendar. I might eventually change the dial color, but an elegantly understated watch. Some might find it a bit on the thick side, but I have a vintage DJ for dressier occasions.

    The ETA base does not bother me given the amount of ingenuity in reducing an annual calendar to 5 gears. I see they just introduced a perpetual calendar. Want.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. SteveH35

    SteveH35 Well-Known Member

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    For the Ochs and Junior -- they are great watches. The watch wears nicely, the design is very good. I found it a bit tricky to read the date, but perhaps I never wore it enough to really figure out the dots well. I'm personally not a huge fan of calendar watches unless I'm going to wear it almost every day, so that would be my other consideration with that piece. But if you want a full calendar and don't need it to be the most instantly legible, then it is a very cool complication and well made piece. The guys involved and the ethos of the company is pretty much exactly what anyone would want from a boutique brand. It's a great company to support.
     
  11. SteveH35

    SteveH35 Well-Known Member

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    For anyone on the fence on a Journe Chronometre Bleu, I played around with some macro photography yesterday. Honestly, if you have ~20k to spend on a watch this is THE PIECE to buy.


    [​IMG]
     
    6 people like this.
  12. bespoken pa

    bespoken pa Well-Known Member

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    Closing in on my first major watch purchase. Kind of wanted to get peoples thoughts on rolex blnr vs deep blue sea dweller.
     
  13. Renault78law

    Renault78law Well-Known Member

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    How do they each sit on the wrist? Conventional wisdom says the blue is too large and topheavy, particularly for the size of the bracelet. On the plus side, the inner ring is not as apparent as in the photos and it's a marvel of engineering. Plus, the dial is pretty cool.

    The BLNR is pretty awesome in every way though a little flashy.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. hak1911

    hak1911 Member

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    [​IMG]
    Ok
    I'll play I'm a Blue color guy..... Truck driver
    That was my 35th Birthday Present ...
     
    3 people like this.
  15. bespoken pa

    bespoken pa Well-Known Member

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    The gradiant dial is what has me hooked. The watch is massive dwarfed a PAM whenI compared the two. The thickness of the watch was incredible i assume one would need to invest in short sleeve shirts.
     
  16. Dino944

    Dino944 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I'm not sure where your post is going either. Personally, I think your original 2 posts placed far too much value on limited editions, but you that's fine. Much of what I said was merely using examples of why I don't think limited editions are not the answer to the watch industries problems. The fact that you didn't reference specific brands, does not mean that I can't reference them. I don't recall putting anything in my post in quotation marks and then attributing it specifically to you. I merely pointed out what I see as weaknesses companies relying on limited editions to make up for the decline in sales. I never said Blaugrana said, "Making a limited edition puts a watch on par with Patek"...it was simply my expressing an opinion that limited editions don't really mean that much they don't elevate what is truly being offered. The meme thing was more of a joke...since whether you see it or not, your post seemed largely focused on limited editions and I know you like them (and there is nothing wrong with that some are very good watches). Anyway, why don't we just move on because we are not going to see eye to eye on this and what you or I say matters little, as the watch companies will do what they want to moving forward.
     
  17. jbarwick

    jbarwick Well-Known Member

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    The other plus is you get an arm workout while wearing it! I have a BLNR and have loved it since the first images I saw from Baselworld in 2013. The bicolor bezel and blue 24-hour hand give it enough to be interesting without being loud like some Rolex color offerings. It is not Smurf blue like the white gold Submariner and doesn't stand out like the green on a Sub LV. While I have not seen a Deep Blue, I have played around with a Deep Sea and it is too big for me personally to wear on a regular basis. Since this is your first major watch purchase, size and everyday wearability might weigh in on the decision a little more than if it were a second watch or further down the line in your collection. The Sea Dweller 4000 maybe worth looking at though it does not have the blue accents which I think you are looking for.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Well-Known Member

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    Well I disagree on the focus on limited editions as I clarified my point while also never offering it as some sort of silver bullet, so I don't see how that was placing "far too much value on limited editions." Either way I think it's entirely fair that we disagree on what effect what I proposed might have.

    I see it both ways. Sure you're expressing your opinion, but I think in some cases what you're posting while quoting me comes off as attributing to me something that I didn't say and/or it doesn't make sense as a reply. In fact with the bolded part here I see it both ways, but again I don't see why you'd post something like that considering I've very clearly stated that I don't think limited editions are the answer. That's all. At the end of the day I actually agree with some of the points you made as I've already noted and enjoyed some of your commentary.

    As for the meme, for me I just don't see it. Maybe you have a different experience with people you've encountered who have limited edition pieces that they own, but in my experience I've not seen anyone who has ever really focused on that. For me personally I consider a piece being limited an added bonus, but I would never buy a piece based on solely on that if at all. In fact before I bought my 1931 Reverso I actually posted here about considering the standard edition. In the end I preferred the syringe hands on the limited edition and so I went that route, but that was my reason why.
     
  19. mildundklar

    mildundklar Well-Known Member

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    Of course it's a quartz-version. The automatic version in 29 mm is not so fun. It's powered by a ETA ladies movement (due to the small size) - I think it is powered by ETA 2761. It's a real train wreck to set time & date - that's why I like the quartz version more. I use my 114060 all the time & it was a bummer when I hade the automatic powered Santos.

    However... I sold the Santos & replaced it with the beloved Tudor Black Bay (blue). I really, really like the Black Bay, even if it's so close to my 114060. I was two link pieces short & the delivery was about 1-2 months... And the Black Bay is more suitable in my lifestyle. I really like being able to wear my watches wherever I go (gym, beach.)

    Take care.[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
  20. Dino944

    Dino944 Well-Known Member

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    You keep saying you clarified your point. It may make perfect sense to you and clearly you be you believe that you clarified what you previously wrote, but I didn't see it as clearer or an improvement. Maybe I've missing something or in person you could explain it differently. However, you see it your way and I see it mine, which is fine.

    There is a typo in the part of my post that you bolded, It should have said " why I don't think limited editions are the answer to the watch industries problems." The word "Not" didn't belong in that sentence. Sorry if that created some confusion.

    I find the whole thing about what you believe I have attributed to you very confusing. I have previously quoted your posts or the relevant parts in a "Gray box" just so it could be read in context and you or others could see what my post was in reference to. Anyone who reads your post and then reads mine can see exactly what each of us have said. I've never seen anyone suggest that by using the "Gray Quote box" above their own post, that that the ideas below the quote box which are in my words would then be attributed to you or someone else. Sorry but I don't see how that is possible. As for you saying "You never said this, or you never as a response to my at in reference to my examples." I have already said that I was the one who basically said,"Making a watch a limited edition doesn't put it on par with Patek." A statement such as that is and was in my own expression as to the lack of value or power that goes with making something a limited edition. It has nothing to do with directly rebutting a specific point you made. However, you seem to be under the impression that any point I make must be a direct rebuttal to something you said. That simply isn't so. I can point out weaknesses even if you never mentioned something as a strength.

    I have enjoyed many of your posts and our discussions in the past. However, I think there is nothing either of us will gain through further discussing any of this and I do not want to derail this thread. If you wish to discuss any of this further you are welcome to PM me. Have a great day.
     
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