The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Appreciation Thread (Bespoke only)

[bengal-stripe]



But for pumps that are not turn-shoes the Traditional pump stitch is very much like a hand sewn Blake stitch. Such pumps (and the Traditional technique) are called "channel pumps."

Although we compare channel pump stitching to Blake, it was a far older technique and much much harder to do.

Is that the method you are talking about?

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]


Now, that's a crude method if there ever was one.

Yes, you might be able to channel the outer sole; although somewhat tricky if you go for the usually very thin outsoles of 3 mm (1/8"). Nevertheless you have to poke all through the insole and come out with your stitching laying on top of the insole.

Apart from opanka construction, I believe that's the way they used to make peasant shoes in the Balkans.

 

[DWFII]



Is that the method you are talking about?

Now, that's a crude method if there ever was one.

Yes, you might be able to channel the outer sole; although somewhat tricky if you go for the usually very thin outsoles of 3 mm (1/8"). Nevertheless you have to poke all through the insole and come out with your stitching laying on top of the insole.

Apart from opanka construction, I believe that's the way they used to make peasant shoes in the Balkans.

Yes, that's a modern variation and it is crude.

But when it was in it's heyday it was all done with boars bristles and by hand including the blind, hard-to-reach stitches down in the toe. And as far as that goes 6 iron (1/8") isn't that hard to channel.

Of more concern...maybe, esp. if you don't down-size your waxed ends...would be the stitches sitting proud on the insole but a sockliner will take care of that easily. The pumps the late 18th and early 19th century navel officers wore would have had to be more substantial than a house slipper or an opera pump. And, indeed a photo of a pair of black men's pumps from the Regency period (1820?), in June Swann's Shoes is shown having a yellow sockliner. Further reading suggests that sockliners were common in

You really ought to get a hold of a copy of Saguto's translation of Art du Cordonnier. (library?). It's worth reading and looking at the old illustrations.

If nothing else, it's useful for perspective.

--

 

[T4phage]



Albert Slippers in navy kid-suede with "French binding" in grosgrain ribbon:

.....

nice
i didn't picture
you to be a
slipper kind
of person!

 

[chogall]

Albert Slippers in navy kid-suede with "French binding" in grosgrain ribbon:





[/URL


Constructed in the traditional method of "Pump stitching":







During the stitching process, corresponding holes are made through the upper material, and everything is pulled tight as you go along.

Lovely. How does this construction work?

 

[DWFII]



Constructed in the traditional method of "Pump stitching":







During the stitching process, corresponding holes are made through the upper material, and everything is pulled tight as you go along.

Bengal, all,

In the interests of fairness and accuracy...I am compelled to correct the record.

I did find a source for this stitch being "the traditional method for pump stitching" in none other than my particular friend Mr. Al Saguto, Head of the Shoemaking Faculty at Colonial Williamsburg and one of the foremost shoe historians in the world..

"This “pump” stitch shown is indeed a very ooooold stitch—seen it on 1st century Roman footwear done with thongs, and lots of medieval (mostly repairs to turnshoes). It is the stitch that Thornton/Swann didn’t know the name of so they invented “caterpillar” or ”tunnel” stitch in their glossaries to describe it in historical specimens.

“Channel-stitching” (hand-sewn McKay construction), with all respect to Garsault, in England was used primarily c.1700-1810s for men’s and women’s galosh overshoes, and cheap (cheaper than welted) shoes. My guess is that channel-stitching was a pattenmakers’ (overshoe and galosh makers) technique borrowed by shoemakers. By 1813 Rees describes channel-stitching as old fashioned and outlines it’s short-comings. See the FN in ‘AotS’ on “English top boot are all channeled”. There are only maybe 8 surviving English top boots from 1750-1798 (one fragment in UK, the rest over here) and they were all welted. That said, I’ve found immaculate dress Wellingtons dating up through the 1850s—mostly Continental/Viennese—with impeccable welted foreparts and very narrow channel-stitched, domed waists/shanks (like cowboy boots). MacKay himself could have been familiar with the channel-stitch, and inspired to duplicate it with his machine."​

Even though Saguto regarded AotS (Art of the Shoemaker/Art du Cordonnier) highly enough to translate it from the French, he seems to discount the section that deals with pump and channel stitching. And Saguto seems to distinguish between "pump stitching" and "channel stitching" despite the implication of that same section of Garsault.

In any case, my mistake.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I never liked the St. Crepin until I saw that video.

 

[chogall]

 

[bengal-stripe]



i didn't picture
you to be a
slipper kind
of person!

Just wait, until I can find a nice silk dressing gown from Sulka,
then I'm all set-up for my famous Noel Coward impersonation:

On my knees, Mrs. Worthington,
Please, Mrs. Worthington,
Don't put your daughter on the stage!

 

[PCK1]

I've been eyeing G&G's bespoke stingray wholecut...

any idea on the costs for this?

can stingray be done seamless?

 

[chogall]



I've been eyeing G&G's bespoke stingray wholecut...

any idea on the costs for this?

can stingray be done seamless?

Yes it could be done seamless; the have a pair of bespoke sample done exactly this way.

Best to ask them directly for a quote as pricing has probably changed on a yearly basis.

 

[mimo]

It must be insanely difficult to make a seamless wholecut in stingray: it's so much less flexible than leather from what I can see, so at the very least it must take ages to manipulate it into the shape of the last. I'm actually surprised anyone would do it!. Awesome.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Are you sure they are truly seamless and not just a back or side seam?

 

[Griffindork]

Yeah, it would be quite remarkable to do that. I can't imagine what the stingray looks like under that type of pressure. G&G tried to gently dissuade me from hatchgrain whole cuts because of the distortion to the hatch grain that results from the stretching.

 

[DWFII]

I've worked with stingray...and I'd like to see an example of a true seamless wholecut in SR.

I'm not saying it can't be done but I don't know where the movement comes from. Blocking for a seamless wholecut isn't just about stretching, it's also about compression. The beads can't compress.

 

[PCK1]

I will email them tomorrow to find out.

If it is possible...perhaps a year+ from now I can post pics...so long as they don't want an absurd amount of money.