1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by emptym, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. Tsujigiri

    Tsujigiri Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Location:
    Orange County
    Hmm I tried it on again and I think I may have had an odd posture in the first photos. Somehow it doesn't look as big now, although it may still be too big to save through alterations.
     
  2. Darkside

    Darkside Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,552
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Location:
    Boston
    General question: I got some trousers hemmed with a 2" cuff, but I feel that the tailor was too conservative with the hem and left it too long and there is more break than I'd like. Is it possible to hem the pants further, even though they have already been cuffed?
     
  3. macjedi

    macjedi Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    656
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    

    Yeah. Usually they are just re-measured and re-done. My tailor doesn't charge for adjustment, but some do.
     
  4. Tradvocate

    Tradvocate Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    315
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    I went back to the tailor today. The bunching under my collar was caused by the narrowing of the waist. The fix (as shown in the picture below) called for shortening the collar. A process of actually vertically shortening or raising the area under the collar to remove the excess material that was casing the bunching. [​IMG]
     
  5. Despos

    Despos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,102
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Quote: Where did you find this tailor? The work isn't very good and I disagree with the diagnosis/fix of the back.

    FYI, they lowered the collar, they didn't shorten the collar
     
  6. Tradvocate

    Tradvocate Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    315
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    

    Sigh I was hoping to get feedback before today. He won't be getting more of my business.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  7. Despos

    Despos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,102
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    The roll of cloth is from tension over your shoulder blades and can be corrected without touching the collar. You have larger, prominent blades and you need length over the blades so it's better to not lower the collar. Can't say for sure but It looks like they lowered the collar without touching the shoulder and now the collar pulls away a bit. Different photo needed to be sure.

    They took in the jacket along the center back seam and threw the pattern matching off. The alignment on the right side of the jacket is pushed downward from the way they sewed the seam.
    You have extra cloth along the side seams at the blade. jacket should have been taken in on the side seams and up into the armhole to clean up the back and not on the center back seam.
     
  8. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,106
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2012
    Despos (or any of the tailors):

    Structurally, why should one not suppress waist from the center seam as opposed to from the side seams?

    The tailor at issue above should have let out at the center seam in between the blades or also still at the side seam to release blade tension?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  9. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    Been awhile since I've posted here, but the poster with the wrinkles at the upper back in his first photo made it obvious to me that the tailor took in the jacket at the CB seam. The wrinkles were a result of tightness and shortness being created over the blades from taking in the CB seam.
    Having done a few more novice jobs myself in the past, I've learned that you just don't touch the CB seam to suppress the waist. The reason is because is because the CB seam is a balance point for the back part of the jacket. taking that seam in naturally curves the line. A curved line will always be shorter than a comparably straighter line. So, when you take in the CB seam, it shortens the back. If a person needs length over the back (prominent blades or head forward/stooping figure) yet has a jacket waist that isn't fitted enough, the suppression has to occur through the sides or possibly the front of the coat. Of course there are limits to how much can be taken out. Add in whether or not the jacket is canvassed, double vented, and the respective shoulder width and the limits of suppression and their associated costs can change even more.
    I used to view suppressing a jacket waist as one of the easier jobs out there. It is comparably easier than any neck/shoulder work, but it is still quite involved if it's to be done right.

    The only time the CB seam is adjusted is when the person has swayback. At least in MTM, the alteration is done at the pattern stage to reduce the CB seam near the bottom portion of the back parts. A corresponding addition to the fore part of the jacket is also there. Since I'm not a bespoke tailor, my knowledge is limited for other reasons to mess with the CB seam. I'm assuming for hips backward, or opposite of swayback, the CB seam is let out to provide fullness and length over the seat. Doing these alterations on a finished garment is difficult if not impossible due to insufficient seam outlet.

    I've learned this the hard way by screwing up my own client's jackets and having to buy them new ones...but this is the best way to learn because losing money hurts.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. BD22

    BD22 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    106
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Location:
    NYC
    What?! Is this common policy or are you just one of the good guys?
     
  11. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    It's not at all common policy.

    On the MTM side of things, there's always enough margin to cover for errors that may result in remake. Or there should be.
    If I don't have to remake, it shows as income and is recorded as such. If I do have to remake, I simply write it off as an expense or file it away as paid marketing.

    On the alterations side, I simply don't take on a job if I know it can't be done. I sell by informing and sometimes I sell potential clients right out of my office and back into the store where they bought their suit OR I sell them out of their purchased suit and into a custom garment.

    Once a man knows the natural flaws of RTW clothing, he goes 1 of 2 directions; "I don't care so F*CK IT" or "OUCH, this hurts. How do I fix it?"

    It has happened less than 3 times in my career up to this point but it's my own common policy. Knowing that it is my policy is likely what prevents it from happening.
     
  12. BD22

    BD22 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    106
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Location:
    NYC
    Man, I'm looking for tailors now (unfortunately, not in PA) and pray for a saint like you.
     
  13. Despos

    Despos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,102
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Quote: It's the opposite. Curved lines are longer than a straight line. Shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

    The more curve to the center back the longer the back.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Tradvocate

    Tradvocate Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    315
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    
    I get this back next Tuesday and will post several images so it can be a lesson of what not to do. Not optimal for me of course but if it can be a useful learning tool for others that is at least something.
     
  15. forbritisheyes

    forbritisheyes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    426
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Bump, please :]
     
  16. 1up

    1up Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,096
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Hi Tailors, would appreciate some information and knowledge for the next time I attempt a MTM.

    This suit is primarily for events, weddings, dinners. Something more modern and less traditional, unlike my work suits.

    I'm happy with the suit in most respects, but I wonder how to get rid of the horizontal bunching on the pants, without increasing the width of the hips/seat/thighs and losing the slim fit look. I notice that if I stick my butt out more and arch my back, the wrinkles go away. Is this postural?

    Any other observations?

    Few quick disclaimers:
    - Excuse the shirt, was all I had at this residence
    - Suit is in bad need of a press, traveled with it. If the pics are too affected by it I will take others.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. greger

    greger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Location:
    WA
    Something else about curved cuts- the dynamics of the cloth is changed because of the bias. Cloth is always more stretchy on the bias. This is good some places and failure other places.
     
  18. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    If a person has forward shoulders, it means their shoulders pitch forward as if hunched over. Backward shoulders is the opposite in which a person seems to hold their shoulders as if puffing out their chest.
    When shoulders are forward in a jacket, there is usually a pinch felt at the front part of the shoulder coming into contact with the front part of the armhole on the jacket. There is a proper pattern adjustment for this so it can be built into a jacket. @Despos knows more about it than I do as I believe that is a large part of what makes his jackets so unique.

    If you saw the diagram on the fixing it for an OTR jacket, it does involve removing the sleeves, cutting off the collar, and shifting the foreparts of the jacket outward towards the shoulder ends. There has to be enough outlet underneath the collar for this to take place and in most OTR jackets there is not. Even on most MTM there is not enough there.
    If there is, the shift is done and the overhang/excess is shaved off on the front of the armhole. The sleeves are reattached and the collar is reattached.
     
  19. forbritisheyes

    forbritisheyes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    426
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Thank you, OTCtailor. I did see this a while ago:
    [​IMG]
    I guess I was just looking for this to be restated more clearly:
    "Flip up the coat collar. See the different cloth, its the under collar. And the cloth of the suit extends under there. All depends on how much cloth is under there. So here is how it goes.

    The sleeves are removed, also the collar is removed except where it is attached to the lapels.
    The shoulders are also opened up. all the linings are opened where needed.
    The first diagram shows the neck hole exposed. the larger curve shows where the under collar was sewn.Now the front shoulder seam is shifted outward and sewn in that shifted position
    Check the dotted lines. At the neck the cloth that was under hidden under the collar moves out.
    And we have a new curved line at the gorge where the collar is reattached.
    At the arm hole we now have excess cloth see that dotted line. This excess is cut off and we have a new armhole curve.
    Now all that is left to do is to put all the pieces back together."

    I don't understand what the "pinch" means. Can you or @Despos describe what the sensation is when identifying an OTR coats' shoulders are not accommodating my own forward shoulders(and others?). Is this phenomena mutually exclusive with sleeve pitch?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  20. Despos

    Despos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,102
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Quote: Substitute pressure for pinch. Downward pressure from the jacket shoulder pressing against your shoulder.

    There is more to this than the diagram shows. Sometimes you want to square the front shoulder, baste a bit more fullness into the back part of the shoulder and work/stretch the canvas over the shoulder point. When you set the sleeve, a bit of fullness over the shoulder point helps too. Sometimes I let out the center back seam at the neck. This is how you get the extra width to put more fullness in the shoulder on the back part. Let out center back and move the neck point over to make the back shoulder wider.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by