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The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cognacad, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. New Shoes1

    New Shoes1 Well-Known Member

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    Spoo initially said quality was roughly the same as Corneliani mainline. Have only had limited experience with it, but my initial impression is that sounds about right. I would say Good category.
     
  2. astrocyte

    astrocyte Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  3. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with you if you just said Oxxford. But Kiton has machine usage in their process as well as many of the other top tier makers. If we were going by that we would have to knock down everyone expect for Oxxford, Attolini, and possibly Brioni but the last would be borderline
     
  4. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Well-Known Member

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    In my view all three of those should be top tier. RLPL used to be ranked alongside Kiton and Brioni but it seems the concensus has changed sinced they moved from St Andrews to Caruso for manufacturing. I dont see why though because even though they are made in the same place as RLBL they are made to a higher standard. TF and to an extent Zegna Couture has been consistently rated as one of the best RTW even by tailors that have taken them apart, JeffreyD's blog comes to mind so they really should be in the Top Tier. I dont have experience with all the brands but i have owned some in the top tier: Brioni, Kiton, Attolini, Luigi Borelli, Isaia and have borrowed/exampined some of my friends, Oxxford. And from my limited view (not a trained tailor) Tom Ford, Zegna couture, RLPL the first two which i have owned should really be in the top tier, and Isaia, D'Avenza, Partenopea, and maybe Borrelli should not be in the same category. The problem with lists like this is i doubt many of the people doing the rankings have actual experience with the brands and are just going off what they have read on here from discussions about them. For example how in the hell is La vera ranked lower than Partenopea and D'Avenza? And im assuming Luciano Barbera sartoriale is only ranked in the top because it is done by Attolini but if thats the case then the Paul Stuart line made by Isaia should be in a higher ranking as well. Plus even though Armani Black Label is fused they have a "fatto a mano" line that from my view (again not a tailor) is very well made.
     
  5. kulata

    kulata Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    - Oxxford (Highest Quality)
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli
    - D'Avenza
    - Kiton
    - Luciano Barbera Sartoriale
    - Luigi Borrelli
    - Sartoria Castangia
    - St Andrew
    - La Vera Sartoria Napoletana

    Very Good[****] (IE: Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category.)

    - Isaia
    - Sartoria Partenopea
    - Oxxford (1220)
    - Belvest mainline
    - Borrelli Luxury Vintage
    - Canali Milano
    - Corneliani Linea Sartoria
    - Pal Zileri Sartoriale (I think there is another line higher than Sartoriale: The custom made one--IIRC "Abito Privato"--has excellent quality)
    - Ravazzolo
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli
    - Raffaelle Caruso: Sartoria Parma
    - RLPL
    - Zegna Couture
    - Tom Ford


    Good[***] (IE: Quality is superior to most suits.)

    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Brunello Cucinelli (very nice fabrics)
    - Canali mainline
    - Canali Exclusive (higher end fabrics)
    - Cantarelli mainline
    - Corneliani
    - Dunhill
    - Ermenegildo Zegna
    - Faconnable Tailleur
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Kei by Canali (full canvas, but very soft)
    - Pal Zileri mainline
    - Paul Smith Mainline (fully canvassed)
    - Paul Stuart
    - Raffaelle Caruso mainline
    - RLBL
    - Samuelsohn
    - J. Press Pressidential (full canvas)


    Satisfactory [**] (IE: The "average" brands. Quality is acceptable.)

    - Belvest Silver Label (half canvassed line)
    - Brooks Brothers 1818 (half canvassed)
    - Cantarelli Tailor
    - Charles Tyrwhitt
    - CC Cornelaini (half canvassed)
    - Etro (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
    - Boglioli (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
    - Giorgio Armani (Black Label)[/U] (alot of their pieces are fused)
    - H. Freemann
    - Hackett (half canvassed)
    - Hugo Boss Selection[/U] half canvassed and some premium fabrics
    - Hickey Freeman LTD (half canvassed)
    - J Crew Ludlow (half canvassed)
    -J. Press Presstige (half canvassed)
    - Lardini (half canvassed)
    - Marks and Spencer (any of their "Pure Wool" collection)
    - Paul Smith London (half canvassed)
    - Polo Ralph Lauren (half canvassed, excellent fabric)
    - Suit Supply (half canvassed)
    - Valentino (half canvassed)
    - L.B.M. 1911
    - Piombo



    Mediocre to Poor[*] (Suits that are mediocre to poor.)

    - J. Press mainline (fused; decent fabrics)
    - Hugo Boss (fused)
    - hickey (now fused and made in China)
    - Joseph Abboud
    - Zara
    - H&M
    - Calvin Klein Collection (now fused)
    - Z Zegna
    - Tonello
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  6. kulata

    kulata Well-Known Member

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    Moved La Vera back to where it belongs.
     
  7. rudals1281

    rudals1281 Well-Known Member

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    May 15, 2012
    isn't that pretty much asking does Wal-Mart sell something nice in quality?
     
  8. rudals1281

    rudals1281 Well-Known Member

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    Question on E.Zegna: I have one made in Switzerland and one made in Spain. Price difference was about $1,000 more on the made in Switzerland one. Anyone know of difference in quality???
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  9. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Well-Known Member

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    Mar 3, 2009
    

    Im getting this info from my SA at Tom Ford so take this with a grain of salt. Zegna has a factory on the border of switzerland and italy, what the "made in" tag says depends on which side of the border it is finished on. The made in switzerland stuff is essentially the same as the made in italy i.e the same factory and the same people, why there is a difference in what the tag says is purely for legal reasons. In general im not sure if there is suppose to be a difference between spain and switzerland/italy though as i thought it was all Mainline E. Zegna. Might be the fabric that causes the higher price, take note that Zegna has a factory in Turkey as well and some Tom Ford shirts come out of there and are the same price (sometimes more depending on fabric) as the switzerland/italy shirts.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. othertravel

    othertravel Well-Known Member

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    Feb 9, 2011
    

    Quality should be similar. The Made in Spain suit is probably cheaper because of the lower manufacturing costs as compared to Switzerland/Italy, but it's still fully canvassed.

    It could also depend on the fabric though. Mainline Zegna suits can vary in price (even if manufactured in the same country) depending on the fabric. The 15 Mil and Trofeo fabrics sometimes cost a little more.
     
  11. nickrut

    nickrut Well-Known Member

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    Jan 5, 2013
    Could anyone give me a ballpark on the pricing of those suits in the Good Category? Trying to determine which are the best values of the bunch. I'm sure they have different cuts so my current favorite suit is my Fitz cut 1818 suit from Brooks Brothers.

    I'm 6'6 about 245. Wear a 48L with a 34-36 inch waist. Any insight would be fantastic.
     
  12. othertravel

    othertravel Well-Known Member

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    $500 to $1500 depending on where you're looking. Your best bet is to check ebay or SF B&S for the best pricing.
     
  13. nickrut

    nickrut Well-Known Member

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    Would going MTM be a better bet? Any idea what the best values would be for MTM from each?
     
  14. RogerP

    RogerP Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Nov 1, 2012
    Location:
    Oakville, Ontario, CANADA
    Samuelsohn suits start around $1,100 up in my neck of the woods, but I have lucked into a few on sale at $599. MTM for Samuelsohn runs $1200 - $1500 depending on fabric and options and that is the route I have most often taken.
     
  15. rudals1281

    rudals1281 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    575
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    May 15, 2012
    Funny you should mention the Trofeo. What in the world is that? Sorry but I am really a homer. So the Made in Spain is the Milano All Season line and the Made in Switzerland says Torino Trofeo or something like that on the label. I'll get a picture if anyone is unsure.

    Followup - Zegna SA says Trofeos are finer fabric hence the price difference. Should've been a no brainer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  16. rudals1281

    rudals1281 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    575
    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Excellent [*****]
    - Oxxford (Highest Quality)
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli
    - D'Avenza
    - Kiton
    - Luciano Barbera Sartoriale
    - Luigi Borrelli
    - Sartoria Castangia
    - St Andrew
    - La Vera Sartoria Napoletana

    Very Good[****] (IE: Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category.)

    - Isaia
    - Sartoria Partenopea
    - Oxxford (1220)
    - Belvest mainline
    - Borrelli Luxury Vintage
    - Canali Milano
    - Corneliani Linea Sartoria
    - Pal Zileri Sartoriale (I think there is another line higher than Sartoriale: The custom made one--IIRC "Abito Privato"--has excellent quality)
    - Ravazzolo
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli
    - Raffaelle Caruso: Sartoria Parma
    - RLPL
    - Zegna Couture
    - Tom Ford


    Good[***] (IE: Quality is superior to most suits.)

    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Brunello Cucinelli (very nice fabrics)
    - Canali mainline
    - Canali Exclusive (higher end fabrics)
    - Cantarelli mainline
    - Corneliani
    - Dunhill
    - Ermenegildo Zegna
    - Faconnable Tailleur
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Kei by Canali (full canvas, but very soft)
    - Pal Zileri mainline
    - Paul Smith Mainline (fully canvassed)
    - Paul Stuart
    - Raffaelle Caruso mainline
    - RLBL
    - Samuelsohn
    - J. Press Pressidential (full canvas)


    Satisfactory [**] (IE: The "average" brands. Quality is acceptable.)

    - Belvest Silver Label (half canvassed line)
    - Brooks Brothers 1818 (half canvassed)
    - Cantarelli Tailor
    - Charles Tyrwhitt
    - CC Cornelaini (half canvassed)
    - Etro (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
    - Boglioli (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
    - Giorgio Armani (Black Label)[/U] (alot of their pieces are fused)
    - H. Freemann
    - Hackett (half canvassed)
    - Hugo Boss Selection[/U] half canvassed and some premium fabrics
    - Hickey Freeman LTD (half canvassed)
    - J Crew Ludlow (half canvassed)
    -J. Press Presstige (half canvassed)
    - Lardini (half canvassed)
    - Marks and Spencer (any of their "Pure Wool" collection)
    - Paul Smith London (half canvassed)
    - Polo Ralph Lauren (half canvassed, excellent fabric)
    - Suit Supply (half canvassed)
    - Valentino (half canvassed)
    - L.B.M. 1911
    - Piombo



    Mediocre to Poor[*] (Suits that are mediocre to poor.)

    - J. Press mainline (fused; decent fabrics)
    - Hugo Boss (fused)
    - hickey (now fused and made in China)
    - Joseph Abboud
    - Zara
    - H&M
    - Calvin Klein Collection (now fused)
    - Z Zegna
    - Tonello


    Question: I am 30 years old, 165lbs, 6ft, and I like fitted (maybe some can call it slim-fitting) suits like Zegna's Torino or RLBL. Can I find cuts like these in the top two tiers?! Tom Ford was like a freaking blanket to me when I tried on 38R. I have also tried on ISAIA and RLPL, both baggy.
     
  17. othertravel

    othertravel Well-Known Member

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    5,417
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    Feb 9, 2011
    Isaia has various cuts that are slim (Base S or Base Gregory). Also, some Caruso suits have very high drops; as high as a Drop 10 in some cases.

    Lanvin suits are a drop 8 and made by Caruso to their highest standards; I recommend grabbing one if you can get a good price. And I think the Dior Couture suits are made by Lanvin as well, and are a drop 10. You can't get much slimmer then that.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. MDeKelver

    MDeKelver Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    342
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I have done MTM Samuelson for as little as $1,200 (Canada with Harry Rosen). Other fabrics can be even better. On the other hand, you can pick Canali starting at $1,800 and go right out of the ballpark with Vicuna. E.Zegna will start at $2,000 with the mainline cloths.

    IMHO, an OTR Canali totally blows away a MTM Samuelson. I have both. Both are fully canvassed, but it is just different. I have seen the new display of Samuelson 1923 with Zegna fabrics and lots of handiwork. they look nice.
     
  19. pendragon

    pendragon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    590
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    
    I am the same size as you, and I just bought a Borelli that was reasonably slim fitting (although not hipster slim.) I think a lot of the more expensive brands are cut larger, because their typical clientele are older / larger, but they usually have some slimmer fitting styles.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. othertravel

    othertravel Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,417
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011

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