The Rise of Style Forum-born Entrepreneurs and their Impact on Style

[coolshoes]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

What is amazing is that bespoke gets so much airtime on this board when probably less than 5% of the members are actually using bespoke services, or even care to, for that matter.

Why the "big time" bespoke posters wield so much influence around here is beyond me. People are buying into some faux wannabee lifestyle that is dubiously portrayed instead of aspiring to find their own comfort zone. You can accomplish this without going to Naples and living the dream or being invited to your tailors fete, trust me, it is possible.

This place just gets dumber by the day.

This is a dead-solid perfect take, IMHO.

 

[taxgenius]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

What is amazing is that bespoke gets so much airtime on this board when probably less than 5% of the members are actually using bespoke services, or even care to, for that matter.
Why the "big time" bespoke posters wield so much influence around here is beyond me. People are buying into some faux wannabee lifestyle that is dubiously portrayed instead of aspiring to find their own comfort zone. You can accomplish this without going to Naples and living the dream or being invited to your tailor's fete, trust me, it is possible.

This place just gets dumber by the day.

Although the 5% may or may not be accurate, bespoke is more interesting of a topic than OTR stuff.

 

[Master Squirrel]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

What is amazing is that bespoke gets so much airtime on this board when probably less than 5% of the members are actually using bespoke services, or even care to, for that matter.

It's easy to explain. Bespoke requires a lot of thought and a is a long process requiring a relationship between maker and wearer. The process is longer and hence so is the emotional attachment and all the ins and out of the processes.

For non-bespoke there is less in the process. You basically purchase it and get it altered.

Why the "big time" bespoke posters wield so much influence around here is beyond me. People are buying into some faux wannabee lifestyle that is dubiously portrayed instead of aspiring to find their own comfort zone. You can accomplish this without going to Naples and living the dream or being invited to your tailor's fete, trust me, it is possible.

I don't buy bespoke and my region has its own style and because of this I have the privilege of speaking with many regional producers and designers. The last "tailor's fete" was held in an architectural salvage yard. It was a blast.

So basically, I have my own comfort zone. That doesn't mean I don't like to read about other people's experiences.

This place just gets dumber by the day.

The place is only as dumb as the people who post here.

 

[George]

Originally Posted by radicaldog

I see what the OP means, and I've been thinking along the same lines myself. For instance, it is striking that none of the SF entrepreneurs really caters to the military-inspired British aesthetic. By happenstance SF taste has converged around soft-tailored garments (Italian and English) and an overall 'relaxed' classic aesthetic (soft over structured, mottled over solid, unilined over lined, brown over black, etc. -- all far too simplistic, but you get the drift). This predominance is likely to influence newcomers to the Forum. If we had a few Kilgour-wearing Vox/Foo/Iammatt/Manton-like members things may well have turned out differently. But now it will be much harder for that style to take root here, which may well be a shame, as we would benefit from some fresh perspective.
I think the 'soft', 'drapey' style resonates more with Americans than does the quintessential military influenced British style. I think many Americans admire it, but find it too ostentatious. Speaking generally of course.

 

[sho'nuff]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

Steven Aver - (deceased)
.

wait a minute.. he died??

i missed this. wow.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by taxgenius69

Although the 5% may or may not be accurate, bespoke is more interesting of a topic than OTR stuff.

I think this is a key point.

 

[hangthree]

bespoke may get the most airtime, but this forum might be the only comfortable place for people to learn about the various aspects of bespoke clothing short of meeting directly with bespoke tailors. i figure all the discussion has saved more than a few people time and money. also, i think to a certain extent people want what they can't have (e.g. everything bespoke).

 

[F. Corbera]

Originally Posted by sho'nuff

wait a minute.. he died??

i missed this. wow.

No, he is well as far as I know. I was referring to the "Steven Aver" business, which was also a pseudonym, not a real name.

 

[F. Corbera]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

I think this is a key point.

That is one thing, and there is also the opinion that it is the end-point manifestation of classic tailored clothes for both men (the usual suspects) and women (couture.)

Which it is, despite archaic techniques, flagging technology, and participation in the overall decline of formality in every day dress.

It also continues to be the case that the most sophisticated knowledge base among Mens Clothing forum posters, with some exceptions, are among guys who buy some or all of their stuff customized.

 

[F. Corbera]

Originally Posted by George

I think the 'soft', 'drapey' style resonates more with Americans than does the quintessential military influenced British style.

I think many Americans admire it, but find it too ostentatious.

Speaking generally of course.

The capsule history, which has been discussed ad nauseum, inadequately, in detail, from a bird's eye view, at length, poorly, well, with clarity, and with absolute opaqueness in forum-land and is this:

1. Brooks Brothers dressed the American urban WASP class from the mid 19th century until nearly the end of the 20th. It pioneered standardized sizing for gentlemen and high quality RTW. Brooks dressed politicians, it dressed business leaders, and it dressed American military officers (and still does, although not as commandingly.) It was a locus of introducing a selection of Anglophilic, and largely country, accessories and casual wear into America. The archetype of the Brooks Brothers lounge look, the No. 1 Sack, was natural shouldered, eschewed close fit, and had within its class of wearers a democratizing effect.

2. American style, in general, since the Civil War has driven two things: in each generation, pressures to further casualize clothing and also to dismantle overt class distinctions in tailored dress. It still influences things to this day in the same way. It is the same two effects English country style had on European dress after the French Revolution. The American upper class was the among the most avaricious and most addicted to conspicuous consumption of any group in history, but income tax and the Great Depression encouraged a dour and meeker public face for which Brooks was perfect.

3. Starting in the 1920s and reaching its apex in the early 1960s, the collegiate version of the Brooks Brothers look, represented most clearly in shops founded in New Haven and for many years supplied by manufacturies in New Haven, sublimated throughout the American consciousness along with the grown-up Brooks Brothers look. For a brief time in the 1960s, it shared the limelight with other American styles and was worn by a wide variety of classes and became associated with American international ascendancy.

This history is largely kaput except in ironic or costumey recreation, but some of us are still affected by it in terms of what we prefer. This doesn't stop guys like dopey, for example, from wearing both that and also a structured look (Dege in his case.)

By and large, though, the three factors above make modern America an unfriendly place for a structured look. (Although we certainly have had our versions of it as nearly any 1940s photograph of a typical will show...but confounding today's forum stereotypes, our 20th century structured looks also involved a degree of drape that would swallow an A&S like the whale did Jonah.)

Most Americans today do not admire tailored clothes as every day dress. Of any type. Period.

 

[scruff]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

trust me, it is possible.

Do as I say, not as I do?

 

[Threadbearer]

Originally Posted by Troilus

I'd say what you're witnessing is the formation of an SF "school." The formation of the SF school coincides with the settling of a group upon a single paradigm. In this case, the paradigm involves advice on certain styles, values of certain brands, etc.

Many people come here not to break the paradigm, but to learn it. There's interest in conformity rather than trend-setting. So I'd argue the observation of narrowing taste is simply a product of increased demand of conformers and increasing interest in the SF "school."
That's an excellent observation. Never thought of it that way. Could just as easily serve as a dissertation topic in sociology as in business.

Originally Posted by MBreinin

I want a lapel pin that says, "Dressed by Styleforvm."
FTFY, Mike.

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

At least to my eye, they are being worn increasingly here in ways that seem to show little insight into how a subdued tie might work best.
Are you ... talkin' to me?

Hmph.

Probably just being paranoid.

Originally Posted by aportnoy

What is amazing is that bespoke gets so much airtime on this board when probably less than 5% of the members are actually using bespoke services, or even care to, for that matter.
I believe I've been learning a lot about clothing construction and proper fit just by listening in while the Big Dogs of the Forvm discuss bespoke. I also believe that I can apply a lot of that learning without ever going bespoke myself.

 

[George]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

The capsule history, which has been discussed ad nauseum, inadequately, in detail, from a bird's eye view, at length, poorly, well, with clarity, and with absolute opaqueness in forum-land and is this: 1. Brooks Brothers dressed the American urban WASP class since the turn of the 20th century. It pioneered standardized sizing for gentlemen and high quality RTW. Brooks dressed politicians, it dressed business leaders, and it dressed American military officers (and still does, although not as commandingly.) It was a locus of introducing a selection of Anglophyllic, and largely country, accessories and casual wear into America. The archetype of the Brooks Brothers lounge look, the No. 1 Sack, was natural shouldered, eschewed close fit, and had within its class of wearers a democratizing effect. 2. American style, in general, since the Civil War has driven two things: in each generation, pressures to further casualize clothing and also to dismantle overt class distinctions in tailored dress. It still influences things to this day in the same way. It is the same two effects English country style had on European dress after the French Revolution. The American upper class was the among the most avaricious and most addicted to conspicuous consumption of any group in history, but income tax and the Great Depression encouraged a dour and meeker public face for which Brooks was perfect. 3. Starting in the 1920s and reaching its apex in the early 1960s, the collegiate version of the Brooks Brothers look, represented most clearly in shops founded in New Haven and for many years supplied by manufacturies in New Haven, sublimated throughout the American consciousness along with the grown-up Brooks Brothers look. For a brief time in the 1960s, it shared the limelight with other American styles and was worn by a wide variety of classes and became associated with American international ascendancy. This history is largely kaput except in ironic or costumey recreation, but some of us are still affected by it in terms of what we prefer. This doesn't stop guys like dopey, for example, from wearing both that and also a structured look (Dege in his case.) By and large, though, the three factors above make modern America an unfriendly place for a structured look, although we certainly have had our versions of it as nearly any 1940s photograph of a typical will show...although confounding today's forum stereotypes, our 20th century structured looks also involved a degree of drape that would swallow an A&S like the whale did Jonah. Most Americans today do not admire tailored clothes as every day dress. Of any type. Period.
Well, yes. I should have said amongst those who care. Question: What would be the typical American reaction be to: a) An American wearing a structured, wasp waisted coat and how does this vary from region to region. Are some regions or crowds more forgiving or would it be viewed with suspicion. b) Someone British wearing one in America Take your time...

 

[F. Corbera]

Originally Posted by George

Well, yes. I should have said amongst those who care.

Question:

What would be the typical American reaction be to:

a) An American wearing a structured, wasp waisted coat and how does this vary from region to region. Are some regions or crowds more forgiving or would it be viewed with suspicion.

b) Someone British wearing one in America


Take your time...

a) You could only get away with this, even if it could be called that, in a very, very narrow crowd. I think the SF member most captivated by this look would be DocHolliday...yet, he dares not wear it.

Obviously, the more concentrated the number of well-traveled and well-heeled men, with suitable barricades on the doors, the more likely it could escape without comment.

The antagonism toward it would be one dB down in NYC.

b) Brits who manifest any modest degree of the stereotypes Americans hold about them have a free pass in America, particularly with women.

 

[George]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

b) Brits who manifest any modest degree of the stereotypes Americans hold about them have a free pass in America, particularly with women.
When is the next flight....