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The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY, AND F

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    It means you are now Horatius at the Bridge, defending sartorial rationality alone against the Etruscans. While I am sunning myself by the Tiber.
     
  2. Mute

    Mute Well-Known Member

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    The latter is a result of ignorance as much as it is poor taste, if not more so. The only true instruction from that is, one should gain some knowledge to assist in their experimentation, not your conclusion which, let's just say it, is boring. If one were of the opinion that white was the go to (no, that's not my conclusion), would you still call it bold?
     
  3. clapeyron

    clapeyron Well-Known Member

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    Hi Foo, if you want I can take and upload some pictures of my 'Oneshirt' design.

    While I don't limit myself to just one fabric, I pretty much stuck with one design with all my shirts after developing my so called 'Über-Hemd'.

    1. Semi spread, tall collar with long points.
    2. Relaxed, comfortable fit (I'm wearing a jacket most of the time anyways)
    3. Narrow placket
    4. Back darts (not really necessary since it's bespoke anyway, but I like how they accentuate my otherwise shapeless body)
    4.b Double back pleats on heavier fabric (e.g. oxford, royal oxford, linen)
    5. Right now I still have gauntlet buttons with all my shirts, but you made me think and I'm considering now to pass on them in the future. I have rather long lower arms so I will see how that will affect the fit.
    6. Cuffs and collar without fusing.
    7. convertible barrel/single french cuff with cut corners on my dressier fabrics, and convertible barrel round cut cuffs on my casual shirts.

    I'm not sure whether the way I solved my cuff dilemma will amaze or disgust you but I hope it will at the very least amuse you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  4. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Well-Known Member

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    Blue is safe. That's only pejorative if you think being bold is a virtue, and such boldness is only a virtue if it exceeds what can be done safely - which it can, but that is not what you are aiming at. Safety in this context is the highest application of the 'rules' of style. You really don't need to prove yourself beyond this, although you seem to feel the need to demonstrate it and at the same time to condemn 'boldness' with unequivocally pejorative terms like 'weak self-confidence'. You don't need to do that. You don't need to make implications of the character of others who might make different choices than you. Indeed, I would argue that true self-confidence comes from never feeling the need to belittle another person (even a notional 'other') in order to justify what you do. So just get your shirts. Wear them with confidence. Be safe, be coherent and be an example.
     
  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    What is the purpose of experimentation if not to find an answer? I'd say nothing. What is the value of experimentation for experimentation's sake alone? I'd say zero. Name a man of great style. Whoever you can come up with, he will be a man who found answers and then expressed them. He will not be one who ceaselessly experimented. If he had, he'd have no recognizable style to begin with.

    I'm glad my shirt choices are boring to you. They should be. No man is stylish on account of exciting or shocking choices. Such choices are so remarkably easy to make that the vast majority of this forum engages in the practice. Well, the results speak for themselves. Style is achieved by making good, considered choices and executing them well. I want to be stylish, not receive comments on the shirt I'm wearing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
    3 people like this.
  6. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    It's pejorative in his usage, as he considers it a negative. I have no problem with "safe" myself and would never hold it against someone else. The only thing that matters is whether something is "good," and that is a separate question.


    Ah, but you must consider character when it comes to style. The latter derives from the former. We don't discuss it enough, actually. Instead, we focus on what to kop. To save hurt feelings we converge on idiocy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  7. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    What? Then Rome is totally fucked.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. emsf

    emsf Active Member

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    Really, tell us more...
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  9. bertie

    bertie Well-Known Member

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    Your don't have to pursuade me that you are absolutely, 100% confident in your position: that is self-evident from your rhetoric. Nor do you have to pursuade me that you are well qualified to take up the mantle of defender of sartoriale excellence. I have no doubt you possess the taste, education, talent and discipline, etc. to both make such important sartorial decisions as well explain them to others.

    I am merely questioning your position on uniformity as boldness. A bold strategy is something unexpected. Wearing the same thing is kind of the opposite of unexpected.

    The greats sometimes had their own uniform but they are generally revered for their legacy of clothing choices and because they are widely seen to be able to dress for the occasion. Grant was known for his grey on grey suit/tie but any google search returns a rich variety of dress. Astaire is known for black tie and flannel suits but preferred odd jackets. Other than his watch and maybe knit ties as uniform, Agnelli was tidy and conservative.

    Your uniform sounds more Tom Ford/Armani in its sameness.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  10. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Boldness has got nothing to do with being unexpected. It has to do with strength and conviction. To the extent it doesn't, it's not what I mean by "bold."

    Anyway, a plain blue shirt is like bread before dinner (or rice with dinner, if you come from one of the world's more ancient and enlightened cultures). It is simply the right thing to do and says nothing about whether one is well-dressed or stylish. Le Bernardin serves bread before dinner. Does that make it sound like TGIF or Olive Garden to you?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  11. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Well-Known Member

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    Quote:
    I would suggest that someone truly self-confident and of superior character would merely calmly demonstrate this and not need to assert it, and that the assertion of confidence and superior character over others can in fact demonstrate its opposite. That is all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
    2 people like this.
  12. scurvyfreedman

    scurvyfreedman Well-Known Member

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    I'm only about halfway through the thread, but have you considered the one-shirt for business and one-shirt for casual? They can even be the same fabric, but the business would be spread collar and single cuff and the casual would be BD and barrel cuff. I realize this is two-shirt, but aren't business and casual two completely different environments where there is not one perfect shirt that meets both needs, but there is one perfect shirt for each?

    I wear almost exclusively blue shirts with a spread collar and barrel cuffs myself. I do have one white shirt also with barrel cuffs and one white shirt with links along with one pink shirt. But, my blues vary in terms of fabric- i gravitate to one though and have multiples made up in the same fabric so I can wear it more than once a week, though. And, the pink is the same fabric, just a different color.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    We're here to discuss style. If we cannot assert what we think makes for good style, what the hell are we doing here? Like I said, this is why everything degenerates into a kop-fest.

    Self-confidence is an absolutely necessary component of style. Indecision implies the lack of self-confidence.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  14. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    I will no doubt need a buttondown solution sooner or later, as my MTM Brooks OCBDs will need replacement and never had the perfect roll. However, I'm in no dire need right now, so I'd be happy if this batch of OneShirt is entirely business-leaning.

    If I have them them done with buttondown collars (and barrel cuffs), I'll still wear them for business. A spread collar would be more ideal perhaps, but I hold to the principle that a buttondown is always fine for business wear in America.
     
  15. clapeyron

    clapeyron Well-Known Member

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    Here's how I solved the cuff versatility on my Oneshirt:


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    This works with two buttons as well if you need an adjustable cuff diameter for with and without a watch.

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    I am anxiously awaiting my nomination for what ever the nobel prize equivalent there is in fashion for this invention.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  16. Loathing

    Loathing Well-Known Member

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    Foo is a very funny creature.
     
  17. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Ah, now I understand.

    But it's not for me. I have zero problem wearing links every day. My only issue is whether to get a buttondown collar (which would mean barrel cuffs), and whether to get a single or double cuff if I don't.
     
  18. sinfjotli

    sinfjotli Well-Known Member

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    As a diligent student of Foo(tm), I would like to ask you about what I see as a slight contradiction in your preferences:

    - you rightfully claim that when wearing patterns, two or three are the best (http://www.tweedinthecity.com/2013/02/01/pattern-matching-have-some-principles/)
    - you expressed an opinion against wearing a tie and pocket square as the only patterned elements, on the basis that this makes them stand out as pure decorative elements

    But when you wear a solid suit with one of your OneShirt, the only option left which matches these preferences is all solids. Do I understand it right?
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    Get the spread collar for these, then get the BDs down the line. I would not make my OneShirt a BD if I had to wear it for business in NY, in finance, every day.
     
  20. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Well-Known Member

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    If you're going to have an OCBD option no matter what for more casual purposes, I'm not sure I see the value of them being your OneShirt, especially if you wear a jacket and tie frequently. Shouldn't the OneShirt reflect your lifestyle and typical wardrobe sources? I realize you can wear a OCBD with a suit and most normal people in the US will not care, but I'm not sure I'd consider it optimal.
     
    1 person likes this.

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