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The Official NFL Thread: 2012-13 Season

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by jrd617, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. denning

    denning Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that it is not the money issue, but rather the ref's pensions that is causing this whole kerfuffle. The owners want to move to a 401(k) style of pension and the refs don't want to. Also, the owners want to hire something like 10-15 more refs, but not increase the salary pool for the refs, thereby decreasing each of their salaries.

    However, it is the pension issue that is really the problem.
     
  2. denning

    denning Well-Known Member

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    Also best line of the night last night: "Russell Wilson is the only quarterback in the history of the NFL to throw a game-winning interception."
     
  3. HORNS

    HORNS Well-Known Member

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    ...
     
  4. denning

    denning Well-Known Member

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  5. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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  6. retronotmetro

    retronotmetro Well-Known Member

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    I think the person I heard discussing the matter was confusing the dollars per year with dollars over the life of the CBA. Either way it is a trivial amount of money, all things considered.
     
  7. Douglas

    Douglas Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does sound pretty trivial, if that's the gist of it.

    But even the article admits some of the divide is philosophical, and not just money - e.g. the full-time issue and the "bench" issue.

    Also bear in mind that many of the NFL's full-time emps don't have pension, so sometimes even small monetary issues have larger monetary issues lurking in the shadows.

    But yes, it does appear that at least some of this is down to short-sighted stubbornness. Thankfully, it looks like the debacle on Monday may have woken a few people up. For Christ's sakes, I bet the Ravens spent half of $100 grand on *fireworks* before the game on Sunday night.
     
  8. HORNS

    HORNS Well-Known Member

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    Well, what is "full time" in an industry where you only play 16 games? I agree that the differences are philosophical and that will change soon enough because we ALL see how important refs are to the game. And then again maybe we do but the owners/Goodell will continue to think otherwise.
     
  9. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    yeah, the NFL always takes a hard line in these negotiations and the issue is not just the 100K but rather what lurks in the shadows after they agree to the 100K. The other issue though that they should keep their eye on is, at what point does the NFL suffer monetary damage that is much greater than what they will give up to the refs. A couple of ratings points lower, a few less seats filled etc means a lot more to them than 100K and you hope that the negotiations don't get "personal" where either party decides to cut off its nose to spite its face. I can't remember the last time there was this much disgust with one of the pro leagues, much less the NFL and whether the league is right or not, you'd be hard pressed to find someone to side with the owners on this one. This isn't billionaire owners going up against millionaire players, its owners going against "working class" refs (who make over 100K for part time work, get pensions and are looking for double digit raises :wow:)
     
  10. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Well-Known Member

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    ESPN is reporting that a deal is close, possibly allowing the regular referees to return this week. Please let it be.
     
  11. Douglas

    Douglas Well-Known Member

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    StyleForum side note: I've found it amusing to hear several times on the sports talk shows analysts saying it could take a few weeks after any agreement to get the refs back to work, citing, amongst other things, the need for the refs to "get fitted for new uniforms." Are there tailors on the NFL payroll compensating for dropped shoulders or something? I'd bet getting fitted for a new uniform as an NFL official goes something like "Large or Extra Large?"
     
  12. Slopho

    Slopho Well-Known Member

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    IDK, NFL refs, as opposed to MLB umps, have to run a lot. The thing to me is that for some reason every NFL ref looks to be about 80 years old. MLB umps are XXL and XXXL. I have yet to see an NFL ref drop dead on the field.
     
  13. Gibonius

    Gibonius Well-Known Member

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    One major consideration about which side to favor in public opinion here: The NFL didn't need to lock out the refs. They could have kept negotiating in good faith and tried to reach a deal while games went on as usual, but they figured they'd just lock out the refs instead. Lockouts are a pretty severe labor negotiation tactic but you'd never know it from the last couple years in sports.
     
  14. Texasmade

    Texasmade Well-Known Member

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    I wondered about that also. How long does it take to try on some pants, shirts, and shoes? I doubt any of their uniform is bespoke. To fit a ref for new uniforms should take like 10 minutes per ref.
     
  15. munchausen

    munchausen Well-Known Member

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    Ed Hochuli's biceps have atrophied. Although that means that his jersey will actually fit properly now.
     
  16. Pennglock

    Pennglock Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone seen any actual stats on the replacements' error rate compared to that of the regular refs? My hypothesis is that the replacements' ineptitude is being overblown. If we were watching these games with the sound off I'm not sure we'd perceive much difference overall.

    Either way I am sick of the whining. You would think no team had ever list on a bad call before Green Bay.
     
  17. Douglas

    Douglas Well-Known Member

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    PG, I think you are wrong. They are making a lot of mistakes, glaring mistakes. They take forever to place the ball, sometimes placing and re-placing it. They lose control of the discipline - note how many skirmishes and scrums there are. PI is subjective in most cases anyways, but their policing of it is extremely inconsistent. Every call precipitates a conference. Even your DVR would perceive a difference - if you don't add an hour extension to every game you record, you will have the end of it cut off.

    It's not that some of it isn't overblown, but there are very real, very discernable differences.

    As for stats, there are none. Nobody goes over games and records missed holds, inaccurate PIs, etc etc. Some people have cited odd things like # of penalties and I even heard Colin Cowherd noting that 9 underdogs or something won last week, most in a generation or something, but they all seem very suspect as statistical barometers of ref performance.
     
  18. Gibonius

    Gibonius Well-Known Member

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    You basically can't do "missed penalties" because there's something you could call PI or holding for on literally every single play, if you followed the letter of the rules. The thing is the real refs actually call things somewhat consistently, quickly, and the players know what they're going to call and respect them. The scabs are just arbitrary, take forever, and way too often don't even know the rules or where they're supposed to be looking.
     
  19. HORNS

    HORNS Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the refs are often older in my eyes but they are some of the most fit older guys I've ever seen.

    Also, on another note, I wonder if there's going to end up an assault on any of the refs from some gambler because of the money that was lost on a fucked-up call.
     
  20. Rambo

    Rambo Well-Known Member

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    deal's signed. they're back.
     

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