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The Hong Kong Tailors Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Silk, Apr 6, 2007.

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  1. Concordia

    Concordia Well-Known Member

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    Their baste fittings are a big deal, especially given their initial measurements. (Bring your best-cut suit, and tell them what you do and don't like. My first time in, they took an old Savile Row suit and nearly gave it a colonoscopy.) This may not solve every problem perfectly, but you'll get very close.

    One thing to monitor-- their default setting, probably due to the Asian physique, is for fairly well-padded shoulders. If you want natural or unpadded, don't wait to tell them-- and expect to say it again during the baste fitting.
     
  2. dragon8

    dragon8 Well-Known Member

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    Are you going with the Zegna fabric? for your first suit, maybe a less expensive cloth to get the measurements and fit down.
     
  3. dragon8

    dragon8 Well-Known Member

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    Tell them what you want from the very beginning and make sure they follow through in the baste fitting.
     
  4. Concordia

    Concordia Well-Known Member

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    One more thing to keep in mind -- as beautifully as they are cut, their trousers are much less well-made than SR equivalents. Among other things, they seem to prefer a flimsy waistband, which can look pretty awful if you aren't wearing a belt. See if there is a stiffer lining they can put in. Again, compare to your favorite suit and ask them to do more or less of what is there.
     
  5. Hifilover

    Hifilover Well-Known Member

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    Chan is definitely not MTM , MTM fitting is let you try on similar size of a ready suit instead of baste fitting of your select fabric . Chan default is full canvas . Do you prefer to have full canvas ? It takes much longer time to produce than half canvas .
     
  6. Fishball

    Fishball Well-Known Member

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    Who you are referring to?

    I love my trouser maker work, and I don't think they are less well make than SR equivalents for what I saw in the fora
     
  7. Hifilover

    Hifilover Well-Known Member

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    Your time frame is hard to get a Savile Row quality level suit . Maybe a one level lower at good price is better . HK tailors are famous for good value but not best crasftmanship in the world . There are many countries have better tailors than Hong Kong sych as Italy , France , Japan and UK .
     
  8. Hifilover

    Hifilover Well-Known Member

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    If not aim for the best but good value , from my limited knowledge , can consider Y William Yu (full canvas) , William Cheng (half canvas ) and Graly for shirts .it maybe better to withdraw if you cannot get the finished product before you leave .
     
  9. IsABellyDad

    IsABellyDad Active Member

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    I think Concordia is referring to trousers made by Chan.

    I need to say that I don't feel that the waistband of my trousers from Chan is "flimsy". Instead, that pair is probably my best pair of trousers (comparing with those from 3 other HK tailors) - with the exception that I've intentionally made it a bit too tight...
     
  10. IsABellyDad

    IsABellyDad Active Member

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    My suggestions:
    1. Tell Chan your budget and the desired performance of the fabrics (instead of a specific brand / series) - and let the staff make suggestions. Chan has a big price folder listing the price of a 2 piece for each fabric. The choice of fabrics is still quite wide if your budget is up to 15000 HKD. A bit narrow if your budget is under 12000 HKD (assuming price has increased since the Chinese New Year).
    2. Occasionally Chan may be doing some promotions on less expensive fabrics (e.g. Dugdale). No harm to ask. However, be prepared that those fabrics are a bit old fashioned / boring.
    probably still ok if you are just looking for a conservative navy suit.
    3. If you intend for 2 suits, pick the 2 fabrics in your first visit, but make one suit first. If the fit of the final product is ok, you can remotely ask Chan to make the second one using the same cutting and mail to you. In case the final product of the first one is not what you desire, you can still find ways to adjust.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. Hifilover

    Hifilover Well-Known Member

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    Chan becomes a catalyst .
     
  12. hentaisan

    hentaisan Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone have the contact details for Ng sifu? Does he have an email address? Does he speak english?

    I'm travelling to HK in a months time and I'd like to give him a go
     
  13. PekingRoadHK

    PekingRoadHK Well-Known Member

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    Ng sifu is one of the many BaoTou with his own workshop in Mirador Mansion TST. He works for a few tailor shops/middle men at the same time in Central, TST, and Sham Shui Po.

    Ng sifu, like all other BaoTou, is the person behind tailor shops who makes suits for consumers. He and all other Shanghai workmanship tailors charge HK$2.xk workmanship for a 2 pcs full canvas suit. However, consumers have to purchase suit fabric somewhere else for CMT. Tailor shops/middle men charge high price for their profit, and tailor shops are one shop places providing fabric choices. So, this is your choice to go direct deal with Ng sifu (BaoTou) in Mirador at low cost or through tailor shops/middle men at high cost.

    You can see what Ng sifu workshop looks like in his facebook page, and you can call him directly if you speak Cantonese. He does not speak English, you have to bring your Cantonese translator! There are around 100 BaoTou in Mirador Mansion, this building is the center for tailors behind tailor shops in HK, and you can pick all kinds of tailors in this building.
    This one tells how to search direct details : 170#
    Best Value Tailor in Hong Kong​
    http://www.styleforum.net/threads/best-value-tailor-in-hong-kong.68785/page-9

    Of this 3 tailor shops, 2 of them work with BaoTou in Mirador.
    Of this 2 tailor shops, I found 3 BaoTou working for this 2 tailor shops. 2 suit BaoTou + 1 shirt BaoTou.
    Of this 3 BaoTou, 2 BaoTou have their facebook pages, the other one has a wechat fan club. We can see what their workshops look like in their facebook pages or wechat fan club before we visit them. For better value, I am sure going to Mirador is the choice for me.

    Of this 4 bespokes, I found 2 of them have their ex BaoTou or ex tailors in Mirador.

    When you talk about HK$10k-15k from retail bespokes, the fabric will be basic VBC fabric.
    I deal with their BaoTou directly. I paid HK$2.xk workmanship for a 2pcs full canvas suit + less than HK$1k for the fabric = HK$3.xk for the same product.

    This tailor shop usally offer Guangdong workmanship to ordinary customers.

    They got many BaoTou in Mirador. Most of their BaoTou offer between HK$800 and HK$1.3k for workmanship. The fabric cost is usually about HK$600. The total cost is less than HK$2k .

    There are about 100 BaoTou in Mirador. All BaoTou have different grade of workmanship, therefore, price is different.

    Poor BaoTou has poor workmanship for cheap price. HK$580 is a very low price.

    This is an example of a good BaoTou with good workmanship. He charges HK$2.xk workmanship.
    3191# From Fabric to Suit -- a review of Ng Sifu’s CMT. (This post is too big to quote).
    http://www.styleforum.net/threads/the-hong-kong-tailors-thread.33568/page-160
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017 at 5:02 AM
  14. MrBergschrund

    MrBergschrund Member

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    I would like to point out a couple things:

    1. You can find ex-tailor shop maker in mirador building but if they are good enough wouldn't they start their own tailor shop or stayed in the tailor shop? Let alone the famous tailor shop make their Baotou exclusive to make suit for them.

    2. Do NOT take advantage of Klp2332's post.
    He did NOT make his suit from mirador. He clearly made his suit at Michael's tailor in which he offered his advices and overlooked the entire project. Even though from same suit maker (Ng sifu), it is NOT same thing as going to find Ng Sifu directly.

    If Michael and Ng Sifu allowed him to walk out with those pants and having the shoulder a bit wide, I do not know what will happen when one goes find a Baotou if he doesn't know exactly what he wants, I mean every little details i.e. If you can tell a fuse vs full canvass suit without cutting the suit apart, let alone if he can communicate or needs chase after a Baotou.

    3. Not all BaoTou is like Ng Sifu

    4. I only know one that found Ng Sifu and the suit turns out to be good is a friend who gets Ng sifu to come his office for measurement and fitting. Please correct me if I am wrong by posting some pictures.
     
  15. PekingRoadHK

    PekingRoadHK Well-Known Member

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    1) You admitted Ng sifu is a good BaoTou. So, why he didn't open his own tailor shop and why he left the bespoke tailor shop? That proved your point is void. Fact is there are many different background reasons for different BaoTou, and I don't disclose their privacy.

    2) No, you are wrong. Ng sifu made the suit in his Shenzhen workshop. He can make even better fitting in his Mirador workshop. Your point 4) tells Ng work is good without Michael. That overuled yourself already. You have just confirmed direct deal with Mirador BaoTou can get good result without any service from tailor shop/middle men.

    I talked to many BaoTou, they said sales people are just outsiders of tailoring. Those sales people are just making stories to fool consumers. Sometimes, those sales people block the tailors to explain the situation to the customers. My experiences are the products are bad when going to tailor shops/middle men, the products are good when going to the same BaoTou directly. I see those sales people/middle men are just making things bad.

    A BaoTou told me, when he makes suits for tailor shops, the business is tailor shops' business. When he makes suits for his own customers, the business is his own business. That explained your point in the opposite direction.

    This is good enough for consumers to make the right decision. (There are a few more good BaoTou in Mirador, not limited to Ng sifu). I make a correction to this review, Ng sifu workshop is located in Mirador Mansion TST, not Sham Shui Po. He works for a few tailor shops/middle men in Central, TST, and Sham Shui Po:
    3191# From Fabric to Suit -- a review of Ng Sifu’s CMT. (This post is too big to quote).
    http://www.styleforum.net/threads/the-hong-kong-tailors-thread.33568/page-160

    3) Not all BaoTou is like Ng sifu. Of course, there are around 100 BaoTou in Mirador with different grade and pricing. Ng sifu is an example of good BaoTou in Mirador. There are a few more good BaoTou in Mirador. There is no single tailor shop/BaoTou for everyone.

    4) You just told an example of good BaoTou from Mirador Mansion. That overruled all comments of no good BaoTou in Mirador. I am not a sales or assocate of any BaoTou, I don't post my photo to sell a BaoTou. I am a consumer. Why not you post your friend photo which you claimed Ng sifu work is good?

    Everyone knows this forum is filled with sales people, and this thread is filled with tailor shops sales/middle men and their associates. That's why there is only one direction for their assocated tailor shops and negative responses for their competitors (tailor shops). Now, I raise an alternative (BaoTou). This is surely conflict of interest to them. I am sure sales people will say BaoTou is bad, their assocated tailor shops/middle men are good. Then, a few more tailor shop associates will chat to each other saying BaoTou topic is nonsense, and raise a few more advertising pages for their preferred tailor shops to turn off BaoTou issue. You forgot to say going to your preferred tailor shops is for world peace, and going to their competitors (tailor shops) and BaoTou is actually financing Kim Jong-un or ISIS. I think we, consumers do have a choice, we know where to go and what to buy. We have no responsbility to protect the interest of tailor shops. This is consumer right, we don't want to be fooled by sales people.

    I asked one of my BaoTou how he made Milanese buttonhole for my suit. He said : come to my Shenzhen workshop to show me. He said there are around 3 sifu in Shenzhen who can make milanese buttonhole, and he is not sure who can make Milanese buttonhole in HK. Most BaoTou have to oursource the Milanese buttonhole making to 1 of the 3 sifu in Shenzhen. I visited his Shenzhen workshop last Sunday and taped the videos how his in house sifu made a Milanese buttonhole.

    I taped this 2 videos, and witnessed how it works out. This is HK$2.xk Shanghai workmanship for a suit:
    Shenzhen made Milanese buttonhole
    https://youtu.be/R7is6_waB3o , https://youtu.be/f6vPLZOAgvU

    compare for yourself:
    Milanese buttonhole / Boutonnière Milanaise
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OhQ3Yo2pYY
    Hand Made Milanese by Cifonelli

    How much Cifonelli charges for a tailor made suit with Milanese buttonhole?

    I asked Ng sifu how he made Milanese buttonhole for my suit, he said he outsources the work to another old sifu in Shenzhen. I show him the videos, he said that is ok.

    I taped and witnessed how one of my BaoTou works for me. Do you have videos to show us how your preferred tailor shops work for your Milanese buttonhole? Do they oursource the work to other sifu? Did you visit the workshops of your preferred tailor shops? Do you think the sales people of your preferred tailor shops will tell you the truth? If customers have not visited the workshop of the bespoke tailor shop, how can they be sure the suits are not outsourced to Mirador BaoTou and produced in Shenzhen workshops?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017 at 1:25 PM
  16. MrBergschrund

    MrBergschrund Member

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    You know you'll make a great politician.

    FIRST, DO NOT put words in my mouth! I feel extremely offended!
    Second, I am NOT against Baotou or any sifu, or promoting any tailor shop. I am simply stating the facts.
    Third, I am very much in supporting baotou, sifu, or tailor shop in Hong Kong, but I will never do it your way to hurt the industry. I will never writing an article with a ceiling of under $3k for a baotou, I hope I can attract more and let baotou speak a name for themselves and charge accordingly. And I wouldn't just say the good things about them like an advertisement without saying both sides of the story. And I will definitely not keep defending every comment that is made about baotou. The only time I see that kind of reaction is 1.a parent defending his kids 2.a shop/sales defending his brand

    1. I never said or admit Ng Sifu is good or bad.
    Privacy? You have uncovered most of the Hong Kong tailors' labour cost! And you are absolutely hurting the industry, because you have never ever said both sides of the story for Baotou or any advantage of going to a tailor. All you said all along is advertise Baotou at mirador, and now especially towards Ng Sifu. There's a very specific reason why I have asked what I've asked because you will arrive at a point explaining the function of a tailor shop. And you do not have the gut to answer it or say anything about it. Keep running and avoiding or rewording doesn't make it any good.

    How about a more direct question. You cannot find an ex-WW Chan baotou? Yes? Why?

    2. Once again, you did not answer any of my points.
    Do NOT take advantage of Klp2332's post. Because he DID NOT go to a baotou, he went to a tailor shop! It was owned by Michael at SSP, and now moved.
    And you sounded more like a middle man more than anyone else.

    Another direction question, Klp2332 did NOT go to ng sifu in mirador, he went to a tailor shop that uses ng sifu? Yes?

    3. This reply is more of a somewhat direct reply to my statement. So of 100 Baotou, how many are bad? It will be same ratio as the people will encounter bad tailor correct? Yes? After all, like you said, most of the HK tailors have their labour at mirador baotou? So if you encountered so many bad salesman and tailors, that will be the same as baotou? Yes? Let me correct your statement,
    And once again, you never said the down side of a baotou.

    4. Like other replies, stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say ng sifu is good or bad. I would say my friend is good. He avoided the tight space in mirador or workshop so he called the sifu to his office, he is located in hong kong so he has time to wait for the sifu for his delays, he knows his stuff completely, and he can communicate with the sifu. If you want me to judge if ng sifu is good or bad, based on Klp2332's post, I would say he is bad and irresponsible letting his client walking out with those pants! Let alone other jacket with some minor issues while you say he is good? I am sorry, that is not the level of quality of a bespoke suit i am looking for.

    Just like how you manipulated my words, why do you assume I have my preferred tailors? Why do I have to know the truth, I mean do I have to know how to make a suit to make a suit? If someone is professional, I appreciate their professionalism either from a tailor or sifu. I give them a budget and I tell them exactly what I want and I trust their advices and together work on the project both in suits and in my IT firm. I appreciate those who work with me and I don't need anyone to work for me. I don't need to count how many washroom breaks my staffs had or how long was their lunch time because I have complete trust in them just as I have in my suit makers. THAT is the level of commitment you should put towards everyone around you and STOP doing carrot and stick!

    At my knowledge of suit making, I do think I can manage to determine a good and bad tailor, sifu, or baotou. The honest truth you haven't given out is that, if you don't know what you are doing with complete knowledge and going to a baotou, the baotou will only give what you know but not what suit you. If bespoke suit only means the cheapest possible solution to have cloth stitched in full canvass and call it a suit, then sorry mate, you are completely wrong.

    Let me explain why I posted those facts.
    You have not been honest to the industry or yourself at all. What is your comment on Ascot shirt and Chan suit? What is your grading? and what is the best baotou you have encountered that can make something, on average, better than or equal to Ascot and Chan in regards to shirt and suit respectively? oh wait, I forgot to ask if you have made a shirt at Ascot or suit at Chan? No? Ok how about appreciate those two brands that make themselves famous as a HK tailor in the world? No? Right...

    Let assume you are not a middleman, not a sale, or won't take a percentage out of baotou (please hope my good will and assumption is correct), all you did all along is to make a name for yourself through baotou while hurting the industry. I mean if everyone turns to baotou to make a suit, can those people make a shop or brand for themselves? If they can, they probably have done so and have a shop, stop hopping around different tailor shops, or charge more like most tailor in HK instead of a <$3k ceiling that you have posted. Because the way you are going is .. say .... once everyone is going to baotou, you will start posting how much different threads or needles cost, or different canvass costs. I mean I hope you will whether be more fair to tell us how much cost each baotou bears for each suit made. I appreciate knowledge but I definitely don't appreciate someone taking advantage out of others. I am not saying it is wrong to promote baotou, but if you were to do an advertisement please pay for it, and not in forums. In a forum, when someone asks for an address or comment on something, one will reply with a simple and direct answer without a whole article to promote. You cannot cut off marketing or sales from someone else's by making a name for yourself because in doing so, you are marketing like a sales or middleman already.

    I hope to see those sifu make a name for themselves and charging more to have a shop or brand just like how savile row suit makers and apprentices make a name for themselves, but you have no vision or intention of doing so, and it really shows in your articles, replies, and forum promotion.

    Let's get a little geeky, what is the truth? Are you telling the complete truth? What is the matrix? Worth a good laugh mate.

    Above everything we disagree on, we can certainly agree on one thing? Yes? You get what you pay for (and that goes with baotou)? Yes? ;)
     
    Chowkin likes this.
  17. Hifilover

    Hifilover Well-Known Member

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    @PekingRoadHK , i really like the workmanship of H Baramon. Do they outsource to baotou in Mirador? If yes , how to find ?
     
  18. Hifilover

    Hifilover Well-Known Member

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    After reading things about Baotou here. Several tailor shops will hurt because customers understand the gross profit of each suit. However , due to high rent , net profit will go in red deeper and eventually shut down.
    After disclosing the cost of tailor shops, may point to Baotou . In this industry , a rule of thumb is double the cost . Baotou cost is less than half they charge . It will bring to baotou compete against each other .

    Anyone guess the response of Michael after PekingRoadHK create an facebook account of Ng sifu?
     
  19. Hifilover

    Hifilover Well-Known Member

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    It is unreasonable for a guy to spend so much energy to damage tailor shops without getting any benefit. I expect he will take over as many baotou as possible to become middle man especially baotou cannot speak English . What a good mind in business ?
     

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