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The Hobbit (film series)

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by deadly7, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. lefty

    lefty Well-Known Member

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    ^ You didn't believe me?

    ^^ Weight is very hard to do well in a realistic animated character that moves quickly.

    lefty
     
  2. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    I had to go. And I would have gone in any case. But still.

    1) This is supposed to be Bilbo’s story, so where the hell is he?
    2) The changes to the story don’t seem to have made it any better. So why make them? I mean, if you want crazy action sequences, fine, put them in (though I could do without) but why change the story otherwise? Why, e.g., do the elves have to save them from the spiders? Why did they take out Thorin shooting the stag, or Bombur falling in the stream and then falling asleep? Could have played that for laughs.
    3) Jackson never knows when to linger or to move on. For instance, Shelob. He takes one of the most stirring passages in LoTR, where Frodo faces her down with the phial, and botches it, makes into a flashlight. The whole sequence is too short and misses the significance of that gift. Ditto here, the Mirkwood spiders. That’s a great moment for Bilbo, but Jackson rushes through it and gives Biblo little to do whereas in the book, he really saved everyone’s hide AND defeated the spiders almost by himself, with strategy.
    4) Making Bilbo ring-obsessed I suppose is foreshadowing but untrue to Tolkein. Biblo was mostly impervious until the end. He just didn’t care. And he DID tell Gandalf.
    5) I didn’t mind Tauriel as much as I thought I would. But “Legolas crooks his finger and 100 orcs die” got old fast.
    6) There was no point at all to Gandalf’s meeting with Radagast, nor for his trip to meet him—which was, where, again?
    7) Jackson changed the whole Laketown business, pretty much every plot element, for no reason that I can see.
    8) So many things are derivative from the other movies. The servant of the Master is Wormtongue. Gandalf’s confrontation with the Necromancer was the same as his with Sauruman (though at least this time Gandalf seems adept at using magic and actually seems powerful, even though he loses). The dwarves giving up and leaving the mountain was like Sam leaving Frodo (both of which are not in the books). Etc.
    9) Why did Gandalf go into Dol Gildur? There was no point.
    10) The “black arrow” changes were stupid.
    11) He REALLY fucked up Bilbo-Smaug. First, B goes in there TWICE. The first time he steals a cup. The second time, they have the conversation. Jackson ruins the conversation. It’s supposed to be very courteous on the surface. And Bilbo NEVER takes off his ring, which would be suicide. Also, Smaug sparing him toward the end was inexplicable.
    12) The whole “light the furnaces” thing was there only to provide a massive action sequence. Plot-wise, it was idiotic. Also, amazing that all that machinery still worked after all those years! And that they had a ready-made, still standing gold mold of a giant dwarf.
    13) Having effed up the plot, Jackson needs to find a reason for Smaug to want to destroy Laketown so he just tacks it on. “Oh, I bet they were in on this all along.” Sure.
     
  3. dopey

    dopey Well-Known Member

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    I thought I was going to avoid this before, but now I am certain. I am sure I will watch it eventually, though. The one thing That I am really curious about is the details of the Gandalf/necromancer encounter. Can someone put that in a spoilers post or send me a pm? It would be most appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  4. lefty

    lefty Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a LotR expert, but...

    Gandalf goes somewhere - not really sure where - to confront the NM. While they battle the NM goes from an amorphous black cloud to the silhouette of Sauron (I guess) to the iris of the giant red eye we see in LotR. Hence my earlier comment about the "birth" of Sauron.

    I may have that wrong. It was confusing as hell and really lacked the power that the scene should possess.

    lefty
     
  5. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Well-Known Member

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    It's much of this that makes me question the hour of added new material. There was plenty in the original that could have made for good storytelling.

    Still I enjoyed it when completely divorcing my geek-self expectations from the book.
     
  6. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Well-Known Member

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    Jackson had far less hand in the Hobbit than LOTR- wonder how much of the plot blame lies with Guillermo del Toro
     
  7. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yeah, and the arkenstone is a magic talisman that will unite the dwarves :rolleyes:
     
  8. Gradstudent78

    Gradstudent78 Well-Known Member

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    Well the decision wasn't made until after he left to turn it into a trilogy (as opposed to two movies), so I'm guessing there were at least significant changes to the story associated with that.
     
  9. dopey

    dopey Well-Known Member

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    Le fael, Lefty
     
  10. lefty

    lefty Well-Known Member

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    Probably. I am small g geek when it comes to this stuff. Had no idea what was going on in that scene or much of the movie. Read the book when I was 11 and never reread or broke the spine of "The Silmarillion."

    But that may not be what you're referring to.

    lefty
     
  11. HORNS

    HORNS Well-Known Member

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    I hope Jackson played Ramble On during the barrel scene.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. hendrix

    hendrix Well-Known Member

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    The barrel scene just totally epitomises what's been wrong with Jackson's action scenes. How the fuck can you reconcile Ian McKellan's excellent realism in his acting when you have freaking ten pin bowling in the next scene?

    If you want to make a freaking Disney movie, make a Disney movie.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. HORNS

    HORNS Well-Known Member

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    Do you guys think that these movies can be edited to be good or great?
     
  14. lefty

    lefty Well-Known Member

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    Edited down? I think there's probably a pretty solid 3 hour movie in all this.

    lefty
     
  15. HORNS

    HORNS Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is what I was asking.
     
  16. Lionheart Biker

    Lionheart Biker Well-Known Member

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    Aside from all the differences from the book, I enjoyed it quite a lot, much better than the first. It didn´t feel as childish, though yes, the barrel part was a bit overkill (but still fun).
    Cumberbatch´s voice surprised me. I knew he´d do a great job but jeez, he really gave an amazing depth to Smaug. And Smau himself looked like nothing I´ve ever seen; he must be one of the greatest characters ever created.
     
  17. El Argentino

    El Argentino Well-Known Member

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    Broke down and saw it with the rest of the extended family. Was more entertaining than the first one, but still a bit long and drawn out. Gandalf v. Sauron was cool. Legolas also looks like he's put on 20lbs - which I frankly think looks better than the thin waif he was in LOTR.

    Saving grace of the whole movie though is the closing credits song, "I See Fire" by Ed Sheeran.

    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
     
  18. deadly7

    deadly7 Well-Known Member

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    Contrary to many here, I loved the film. I enjoyed Smaug, but if anything was drawn out it was the Smaug scene. The fight scene was insanely boring. But, Bilbo's conversation with Smaug was almost as enjoyable as Gandalf in Dol Guldur. The barrel scene was pure fun.
     
  19. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Well-Known Member

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    My god, this movie nearly put me to sleep on a level of Peter Jackson's King Kong. I mean honestly, there were a couple of fun sequences but it just wasn't all that engaging. Ironically, the character I liked most was Kate who isn't even in the novel. Just like the first film, the best scene was Bilbo simply exchanging dialogue with a compelling character (Smaug, in this case) but even that became sleep inducing after a while.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  20. Harold falcon

    Harold falcon Well-Known Member

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    There's a good 45 minute movie (Smaug) buried somewhere in this mess.
     

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