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The Avengers (05.04.2012)

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by willy cheesesteak, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. Fang66

    Fang66 Well-Known Member

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    Actually I thought the discussion was about super matchups? I didn't say Pym was dumb, he's obviously a super level genius, the point is his pussyness would allow Batman an advantage that he would surely exploit. For pure intellect the are plenty of characters far smarter than any of these guys, The Thinker for example.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  2. RFX45

    RFX45 Well-Known Member

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    But were not talking about how Batman could beat, we were just naming people that are super smart. I thought it was already determined since the beginning of time that Batman beats anyone, no matter what?
     
  3. Fang66

    Fang66 Well-Known Member

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    :nodding:
     
  4. NorCal

    NorCal Well-Known Member

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    See, I think you all underestimate the Hulk and over estimate WW. Now, I love WW but she is all over the place. The trend for the Hulk for a while has been towards infinite strength. Even back in the 80's during Secret Wars he was able to hold up a mountain range. The only way a member of the JLA out side of Supes could beat him is by deciet and taking advatage of range. I think Bats could do it with the right prep. THe rest, not so much. WW would hurl crap at him, maybe try her lasso and Hulk would get pissed, leap, grab and smash. MM would try his brain tricks, enrage the beatial mind, be thrown out by the pure ferocity of the primitive brain come alive and while stunned Hulk would smash.

    Huljk v. Supes would be Supes bashing for a bit while he figured out how tough the Hulk is, then unleashing what he thought was a crushing blow. Hulk comes back bigger, stronger, and madder than ever. Supes gets smart and uses his eye beams, blinds the Hulk and then goes in for the flight into space. While blasting off the Hulk grabs him and starts bashing, they renter the Earths atomosphere, fighting all the way and plow into the core, as the Hulk gets stronger the lack of sun and radiation from the Earths core saps supes and Hulk smashes him through to the center of the Earth. Hulk has broken unbreakable things before and has lifted thors hammer, which should be impossible.

    WW is all over the place. In JLA Doom she is scratched by fucking cheetah, suggesting that she has only limited involurability. I think Iron Man would balst, she would deflect with her wrist bands and then it would be hand to hand. The movie version of IRon Man has him more dependent on his missles and blasters but he is actually quite strong and has force fields and electric shocks that he could use in close. I think it would get to hand 2 hand and while she started to beat he would pull a nerve gas/shock/chest blaster to blind and take the fight.

    If you include Wanda I think she could actually take anyone. It all depends on her Hex power and knowledge of the mystic arts. She is the one that could actually trip up the Flash. Matching her up against him if she Hexed him he could actually be slowed down enough for a finisher. MM might be able to resist her powers as he is a martian and then smash though so I might give that one to him.

    Thor would Kill GL, hammer to the dome and then lighting strike while GL deals with the immovable object coming at him.

    Bats is badass but Cap is more than just a flag waving wunder boy. He is a really good tacticion and is in many ways the Averngers answer to Bats. Both have will for days and have seen it all. It is a wash.

    I still think it is pretty even and while the JLA has a deeper bench I think the Avergers have a better one (Doc Strange, Silver Surfer ect).

    Hawkeye could fight HawkGirl and likely lose.
     
  5. NorCal

    NorCal Well-Known Member

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    Thinking about it, WW gets poisoned by stingray as well. Maybe a nerve toxin would be Iron Man's way to victory.
     
  6. RFX45

    RFX45 Well-Known Member

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    I think you are the one completely underestimating WW. She won't be a match for the Hulk power-wise but she can hold her own.

    And as for that Superman vs. Hulk scenario, that such a Hulk biased scenario it's not even funny. Trust me, with the right writers, they can make the Hulk an infant compare to Superman. Have you not seen or read what Silver Age Superman could do? He had psychic powers at one point and fly through galaxies so easily he might as well be Gokus Instantaneous Transmission. He reversed the Earths rotation to go back in time. By that theory, dude could go back in time before Banner gets exposed in radiation and the Hulk wouldn't exist. The big blue boy scout is insanely powerful that he has no idea what the limit of his strength is. He holds all his punches in fear that it might kill someone. We've seen what the Hulk can do since he never holds back, I don't think we've seen what Supes can really do if he stops caring.
     
  7. Fang66

    Fang66 Well-Known Member

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    Sir you display your ignorance like a Filipina housewife displays her wet laundry!

    Yes Cap is a good military tactician but hardly in Batman’s league (no pun) he is also more reluctant to fight dirty.

    And JLA has some heavy hitters on the bench,
    Magicwise; Doctor Fate, Phantom Stranger, Sandman, Zatanna,
    Brute power; Firestorm, Captain Marvel, Mon-El (that’s two superman level dudes right there), various Green Lanterns.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  8. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Well-Known Member

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    Buy graphic novels. Amazon has just about anything you would want for deep discounts over buying at the book store or comic shop.
     
  9. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Well-Known Member

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    BTW guys, I :inlove: where this thread is heading. I'll share more thoughts on these match-ups soon.

    EDIT: Actually one quick thing... I believe it's important for us to all realize that some of these characters have been around for many decades. A variety of writers have put their spin on them and they have existed in universes that have themselves changed. It's hard to compare Superman vs Hulk without specifying what versions you mean. As has been pointed out Silver Age Superman was so ridiculously over powered that any match-up would pointless. There was even a time when Batman was a joyful shadow of the badass he is today. So can we all agree to go with the more modern versions of these heroes of the sake of having a good debate? Comic versions only. No animation and no film.


    EDIT:

    To illustrate my point on the need to have standards and avoid the more fringe takes on various characters, I leave you guys with this.


    [​IMG]

    :slayer:
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  10. Texasmade

    Texasmade Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't the JLA call in the GL Corps for help and pretty much wipe out the Avengers? Does Marvel have something equivalent to that?
     
  11. deadly7

    deadly7 Well-Known Member

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    The Corps suck. So overrated in their power.
     
  12. Fang66

    Fang66 Well-Known Member

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    Poozer!
     
  13. NorCal

    NorCal Well-Known Member

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    Bah, there is a reason Cap and Bats both lead the teams. I love Batman, he is by far my favorite DC character, but Cap. has hung with every badass out there and is not just a military action figure.

    RX, sure Supes is the most overpowered as I mentioned, but looking at the modern trend as JR suggests he does not have all those silly ass abilities. And yeah, that is the Hulk centric version. I think Hulk could hurt superman, I think he is strong enough.When he gets mad enough he does things that should not be possible (eg lifting Thors hammer). I don't think the Hulk could really be killed by brute force, I don't think smashing is the answer to dealing with him. Like I said, laser eyes, flying and a cool head would be supes best bet. Put him somewhere (eg orbit) where he can't hurt anyone.
     
  14. Fang66

    Fang66 Well-Known Member

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    What? No Spectacular Spider Ham?
     
  15. NorCal

    NorCal Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to go there, then Marvel could bring in the eternals, Jean Grey as Phoenix ect.
     
  16. Fang66

    Fang66 Well-Known Member

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    Phantom Zone
     
  17. RFX45

    RFX45 Well-Known Member

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    Even in the modern version (minus the new 52 which he can't even fly, just jump) Superman is still overpowered. He can get hurt but melee attacks but w/o Kryptonite or Magic, it seems like he still can't be beaten. I guess you can say the Hulk is somewhat like Doomsday, except Doomsday evolves/adapts (even in defeat) so he continually gets better/stronger while the Hulk has infinite strength. I think the Superman Doomday killed is one of the weaker iterations though.

    Still, we've still not seen what an all out, no holding back punch by Superman can do while we have with the Hulk. I think that is one main factor we have to considering in measuring strengths. Supes also has a plethora of powers and he can always fly into the Sun and go super saiyan. It's a toss up battle and really hard to tell but I still give it to the boy scout. if he was against Silver Surfer who can manipulate his skin to become kryptonite and kill him or even Thor with his magical power (Supes also lifted Mjolnir btw) then yeah there is a bigger odds of Supes losing.

    The way I see the ending of the Hulk vs. Superman battle, even if Supes somehow gets stomped to a bloody pulp, he'd likely talk the Hulk down til he revert back to Banner and eventually, Superman wins. :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  18. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't Superman just fly the Hulk out the Galaxy and leave him on a deserted planet somewhere? It's not like he can fly and unless the Hulk was found, that's where he would stay.
     
  19. Rambo

    Rambo Well-Known Member

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    Any of you guys who like the superhero on superhero arcs should check out the new Ultimate universe comics. X-men and Ultimates. Its completely nuts but its interesting to say the least.
     
  20. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Anyone remember this?

    [​IMG]
     

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