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Suit linings, silk vs. bemberg, etc.

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Ligament, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. Ligament

    Ligament Active Member

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    Please explain to me why Bemberg lining, a type of rayon, would be considered a quality lining? Why is silk not used more often for suit linings?

    Speaking of Bemberg...how is it different from other synthetics that makes it desireable for suitings?

    Best.
     
  2. Alias

    Alias Well-Known Member

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    Cupramonium rayon is what's usually referred to as "bemberg," although some people use the term loosely to cover any mix of materials used in lining suit jackets. This rayon (also called cupro for short) is made from pulp (I've heard wood pulp or even pieces of cotton), making it unlike other man-made fibers which are composed of synthetics. As for why it's used instead of silk, I've read that silk is less durable than cupro bemberg, and tends to get hotter.
     
  3. LabelKing

    LabelKing Well-Known Member

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    If I recall isn't bemberg used for various dust bags especially of Gucci, YSL's?

    I could have sworn when I looked in some of mine the tags stated bemberg.
     
  4. rws

    rws Active Member

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    If woven well (specifically for linings for clothes, I suppose), silk is at least as durable as Bemberg. Silk breathes better, too, so is cooller in summer and warmer in winter. I find silk tactilely and visually more pleasing.

    The problem lies in finding suitable silks. Bemberg is less expensive and a fair imitation of silk, and so has displaced silk in nearly all ready-made suits. Even for a tailor, availability of silk linings is not (I understand) half so great as a generation ago.

    On my last trip to China, I made efforts in both Shanghai and Beijing to find silk that was made to line clothes. I visited two or three large fabric or silk sellers in each city and found nothing.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. brescd01

    brescd01 Well-Known Member

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    According to Centofanti, this great tailor in Philadelphia, silk rips more easily than Bemberg. This may not be mutually exlusive with the above observations, because the silk linings that are available may not be the highest quality possible. Keep in mind that he did not shy away from the finest quality materials of any other part of his suit, eg bone buttons, best fabric, etc, so I do not think he was trying to be self-serving.
     
  6. Will

    Will Well-Known Member

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    Brescd01 has it. Bemberg outperforms silk to such a degree that the bespoke tailors switched decades ago.

    If you wish a high performing lining from the past, have your tweeds lined with alpaca.

    Will
     
  7. rws

    rws Active Member

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    That's likely accurate regarding what seems to be available today.  Older silk linings, with self-woven designs acting virtually as rip-stops, did not rip easily.  My last remaining clothes from thirty-five years ago, a dinner coat and a sportcoat, were lined with such silk, and each lining still is unripped despite fairly hard wear.

    I suspect that cost was determinative in the apparent extinction of those older lining silks.

    Has anyone any idea when Andy will be back on line?
     
  8. babygreenspots

    babygreenspots Well-Known Member

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    As it turns out, Bemberg Rayon is more expensive in China than most of the silks that tailors here use to line suits. Bemberg Rayon must not be made here yet. Do we know where it is made? Are there patterned bembergs?
     
  9. Cordwinder

    Cordwinder Well-Known Member

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    As it turns out, Bemberg Rayon is more expensive in China than most of the silks that tailors here use to line suits. Bemberg Rayon must not be made here yet. Do we know where it is made? Are there patterned bembergs?

    "Bemberg" is the registered tradename for Cupro Rayon made by Asahi Kasei in Japan. Bemberg lining isn't made in CHINA, only in Japan.

    I've mostly seen them plain but there are patterned (e.g. twill, jacquard, etc) and with finishes.

    I work in the textile field in Japan.
     
  10. gpe

    gpe Member

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    Interesting. Looks like there are only a few companies around which still produce Bemberg cupro (according to Advanced Fiber Spinning Technology
    Av Toshinari Nakajima, K. Kajiwara, J. E. McIntyre). The other larger company being, eh , Bemberg (http://www.bembergitalia.com/). And I guess the have some sort of copyright in Europe?
     
  11. winston

    winston Well-Known Member

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    So is bemberg actually different to viscose? I see things labelled as bemberg, cupro, rayon or viscose and assume that they're basically the same thing.
     
  12. laphroaig

    laphroaig Well-Known Member

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    Bemberg is a made fibre from celulouse just like rayon or acetate but manufactured using a different process and has slightely nicer qualities. It can be made from cotton linter or wood pulp. That's beside the point, it is essentially a man re-made natural fibre equivalent, with similar inherent properties and very different from synthetic fibres like nylon. Whoever said bemberg breathes less than silk above isn't right. Bemberg has a higher water absorbtion property than silk (but less than cotton), making it feel like it breathes more. This is in complete contrast to synthetics, which have practically no water absorbion properties.
     
  13. dopey

    dopey Well-Known Member

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    This topic has come up repeatedly and there are a few other threads on the subject worth searching for. My personal verdict is that I am going to be content with bemberg and ermazine and not hanker for silk, though it seem that some clients and tailors may prefer silk.

    The one thing to be on guard against is crappy synthetic linings.
     
  14. whnay.

    whnay. Well-Known Member

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    My tailor prefers silk. For whatever its worth.
     
  15. Tomasso

    Tomasso Well-Known Member

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    I once tried red silk lining and it bled onto my shirts, especially the armpits. We tried pit shields for a time but then just decided to replace with bemberg.
     
  16. merkur

    merkur Well-Known Member

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    ..
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2011
  17. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about the rest of you, but I find that silk wears hot. Very insulating.
     
  18. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about the rest of you, but I find that silk wears hot. Very insulating.

    +1. The very reason cited by Dege when I first asked about silk linings.
     
  19. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Well-Known Member

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    silk retains body odor, in additionto being warm!!!
    Carl
     
  20. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Well-Known Member

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    silk retains body odor, in additionto being warm!!!
    Carl


    Nice! I use Sex Panther and I'd love for the scent to linger in my clothes.
     

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