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Spanking

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Douglas, May 4, 2010.

  1. bBoy JEe

    bBoy JEe Well-Known Member

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    Did you block out the memories of how horrible being spanked was? Assuming same results, if you can't be bothered to invest 20 minutes of effort into your child's discipline and spank him simply because it's easier, I don't think you have any business being a parent.

    I remember exactly how bad it was to get spanked. It's also probably one the main reasons I didn't turn out to be a mess-up.

    Also, spanking in a lot of cases is the harder option. Many times it causes resentment and anger. Many parents who do not want to spank their child is afraid of their child not liking them. I don't care. I'm their parent, not their best friend.
     
  2. bBoy JEe

    bBoy JEe Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if you've read my posts, but I acknowledge that that's certainly an option. In my case I was spanked as a child. Usually about once every two weeks whether I needed it or not (I was an honor student and a 'good kid' if that tells you anything). In a few cases the spankings I got actually crossed the line, IMO (left welts and bruises, etc.).

    My wife was raised in a home without spanking and felt strongly about not spanking. I embraced it mainly because I didn't trust myself not to lose control in moments of anger and take it beyond where it should have gone (a rare moment of introspection).

    Again, I'm not dogmatic about it. My only point is that there is no one right way to do it. There are however lots of wrong ways to do it and the wrong ways involve both spanking and not spanking.


    Once again, I agree with you. I'm not saying that spanking it the ONLY way to discipline your child. I am saying that disregarding or considering it equivalent to abuse is selling yourself and your child short. That is all.
     
  3. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    ROFL. But that was MY point!!!! If you do your job right from the beginning you can use other methods and they will be as effective as spanking and the kid will respect your authority later on. It was you (as in you people and your sympathizers) who then said the kid is going to tell you to fuck off and steal your money, to which I responded by saying spanking isn't going to help you there because the kid will hit you back.

    Do you not see the inconsistency you are using in an attempt to maintain your position? You say that Pavlovian conditioning will work. Except, of course, when you want to disagree with a certain conditioning stimulus. That pretty much kills your related rebuts right there.
     
  4. Mark from Plano

    Mark from Plano Well-Known Member

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    ROFL. But that was MY point!!!! If you do your job right from the beginning you can use other methods and they will be as effective as spanking and the kid will respect your authority later on. It was you (as in you people and your sympathizers) who then said the kid is going to tell you to fuck off and steal your money, to which I responded by saying spanking isn't going to help you there because the kid will hit you back.

    Well it's really difficult to tell what your point is. It seems that your underlying assumption is that parenting techniques for 4 year olds will be required when they are 16. This is faulty. If you've disciplined them properly as 4 year olds (whether by spanking or by other means) then they won't need spanking at 16. If you beat the shit out of them when they are 4 and make them angry little shits then, yes, you won't be able to control them at 16.

    But as Pio already has pointed out, lots of kids get spanked and don't turn out to be criminals. It's not the deciding factor you want to claim it is.
     
  5. HgaleK

    HgaleK Well-Known Member

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    Um, you are not getting it. The contention was that this mythical 16 year old got to this state because you failed to properly discipline him. I would agree that an out of control 16 year old is capable of this, which is why I would imprint my physical dominance on him from a young age.
    This is my point right here. If my dad and I were to get in to a fight right now, I might actually win, and I would damn sure hurt him if I lost. It should never come down to that though. When I was 12-14, his threat from from way back was still good because he back it, and could still probably spank me if felt like. When I was 15-16ish and felt impudent, I still knew that even though he couldn't spank me, he would enforce his authority, and whether or not I won, it wouldn't be worth it simply for the sake of running my mouth. Since then I've grown up enough to accept his authority on many thing simply on the basis of him having more experience with whatever it is than I do, though it took 17 years to get to this point. EDIT- I would like to point out that spankings weren't used exclusively. There were times when a timeout did it for me. My parents did things similar to Mark from Plano when it was fitting, and many times it worked. I'm just saying that there were times that it didn't, and a spanking is the only thing that I know of that would for me or my little brother.
     
  6. cross22

    cross22 Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if you've read my posts, but I acknowledge that that's certainly an option. In my case I was spanked as a child. Usually about once every two weeks whether I needed it or not (I was an honor student and a 'good kid' if that tells you anything). In a few cases the spankings I got actually crossed the line, IMO (left welts and bruises, etc.).

    My wife was raised in a home without spanking and felt strongly about not spanking. I embraced it mainly because I didn't trust myself not to lose control in moments of anger and take it beyond where it should have gone (a rare moment of introspection).

    Again, I'm not dogmatic about it. My only point is that there is no one right way to do it. There are however lots of wrong ways to do it and the wrong ways involve both spanking and not spanking.


    Mark, that line of thinking requires a lot of introspection and courage. Respect.
     
  7. cross22

    cross22 Well-Known Member

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    Well it's really difficult to tell what your point is. It seems that your underlying assumption is that parenting techniques for 4 year olds will be required when they are 16. This is faulty. If you've disciplined them properly as 4 year olds (whether by spanking or by other means) then they won't need spanking at 16. If you beat the shit out of them when they are 4 and make them angry little shits then, yes, you won't be able to control them at 16.

    That is precisely my point.

    But as Pio already has pointed out, lots of kids get spanked and don't turn out to be criminals. It's not the deciding factor you want to claim it is.

    And my point is that there are lots of kids that don't get spanked and turn out to be productive and effective members of the community.
     
  8. Dedalus

    Dedalus Well-Known Member

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    Our upbringings are very personal, so people are expected to rationalize their own upbringings as 'correct.' How about some science?

    Here is something from Nemours, a respected pediatric source (http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotion...ipline.html#):

    And the American Academy of Pediatrics (http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...01/4/723.pdf):

    I left the references in because people always question that kind of shit. This is peer-reviewed shit, motherfucker [​IMG]
     
  9. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Well-Known Member

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    A bit better than yesterday, all day vomiting for
    ...I didn't trust myself not to lose control in moments of anger and take it beyond where it should have gone...

    The RubeBabes all received at one time or another a swat on the backside. I recall having the same fear as Mark every single time.
     
  10. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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  11. Beetleything

    Beetleything Well-Known Member

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    Our upbringings are very personal, so people are expected to rationalize their own upbringings as 'correct.' How about some science?




    I left the references in because people always question that kind of shit. This is peer-reviewed shit, motherfucker [​IMG]


    Nicely put.[​IMG]
     
  12. cross22

    cross22 Well-Known Member

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    Our upbringings are very personal, so people are expected to rationalize their own upbringings as 'correct.' How about some science?

    Here is something from Nemours, a respected pediatric source [..]

    And the American Academy of Pediatrics

    I left the references in because people always question that kind of shit. This is peer-reviewed shit, motherfucker [​IMG]


    Thanks! That saved me time!
     
  13. Dedalus

    Dedalus Well-Known Member

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    Although for the record, I am in favor of Mark's pragmatic approach, even though the literature favors no spanking. I just haven't encountered a situation yet with my son that I believe has warranted a spanking, but then he is only 3.
     
  14. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    Our upbringings are very personal, so people are expected to rationalize their own upbringings as 'correct.' How about some science?

    Here is something from Nemours, a respected pediatric source (http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotion...ipline.html#):




    And the American Academy of Pediatrics (http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...01/4/723.pdf):



    I left the references in because people always question that kind of shit. This is peer-reviewed shit, motherfucker [​IMG]


    There is still a crap ton I could pick apart there. However, outside of having to deal with misbehaved children, I really have no dog in this fight. I will conclude with the fact that I think the level of my corporal punishment was a bit excessive, yet I never once stole from my parents, told them to "fuck off," and never once considered beating them down.
     
  15. Fuuma

    Fuuma Well-Known Member

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    Mark, I would agree that in theory "time out" should work. However, sort of like communism, I have yet to see a parental unit that uses it as an effective tool of discipline.

    I have yet to see a child that was spanked/beat that didnt cower in fear when viewing his parents and wasnt gonna be a fucked up human being when he grows up. Whats your point?
     
  16. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    I have yet to see a child that was spanked/beat that didnt cower in fear when viewing his parents and wasnt gonna be a fucked up human being when he grows up. Whats your point?

    I think you need to make a thread to show me the error of my ways.
     
  17. LatinStyleLover

    LatinStyleLover Well-Known Member

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    I have avoided comment on much of anything here following a purchase gone bad and some responses that followed, but was intrigued by this discussion. My parents did not spank any of us prior to the age of 8. They said that before the age of 8 we were not really able to understand right and wrong to the degree necessary for a spanking to be warranted. Beyond that, we were only spanked for two reasons: 1. If we hit one of our siblings; 2. If we lied to our parents. We all learned pretty early on that if we confessed what we did, no matter what it was, that our parents would punish us, but not as badly if we lied about it and got caught. As they explained it to us they would not be able to help us with a problem, a problem that we might not even perceive to be a problem, if they were not aware of the problem, so we needed to always tell them the truth. Also, if we accepted our punishment, which usually involved no t.v., games, computer, etc., and did not complain about it, two weeks of punishment was usually reduced to one week because of good behavior. Finally, my mom never spanked any of us, and the reason is quite unusual. My mom has a temper and once spanked my older brother too hard when she lost it. My dad pretty much took over after that, we had a family meeting, and we were told that none of us would ever be spanked when a parent was angry and that my dad would handle all spankings. My older brother seemed to get the most spankings, mostly because he lied a lot, and I remember one spanking, but I do not think any of my other siblings has ever been spanked. It is also interesting to me that my dad, who is normally thought of in strong terms by us, would go to his room alone and actually cry after having to spank my brother, and I assume me. So I know he did not enjoy having to spank us. I don't know if they were right or wrong in the way they handled it, but I don't think any of us ever thought we were punished without a real good reason. I learned early on in life that I was free to make my own choices, but I was not free to determine what the consequences would be for those choices. Since spanking was so rare in our house and we were all pretty well behaved I suppose it would be easy to argue it is not necessary to spank. I think the most effective tool used by my parents was the knowledge that they meant what they said and never bluffed. If we were dumb enough to break a rule and get caught, we would be punished. I remember when I was little, I think around 5 or 6, going to Disneyland with the whole family. We were standing in line for a ride and this one kid was really acting up. His mother told him to stop or he was going to get it. My dad said: "Watch this, he'll do it again and again and his mother will keep threatening to punish him, but nothing will ever happen. How many warnings do you guys get?" I said none. My dad was also right that this kid never stopped and his mother never did anything about it. The only time we ever got a warning was when we did something that my parents had not anticipated, that was not a "known" rule violation. We got a strong warning if it was something new and that would then be added to the list of known offences. Sometimes, we would try and claim we did not know, but that really never worked. In any event, I don't plan on having any kids so I guess I will never know how I would treat my own kids. If that changes, I imagine I would probably follow my parents route since it seemed to work out fine for all of us.
     
  18. Fuuma

    Fuuma Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to make a thread to show me the error of my ways.

    I dunno, I was never spanked (and hardly timed out) and if I had been I would simply not aknowledge my parent's existence right now. There is stuff I just cannot forgive. I've been slapped in anger though and that I can accept. Violence as a child rearing strategy I cannot but I don't expect perfection in human relations. Authoritarian patterns and misreading "you don't need to be your kid's friend" to mean " your kid doesn't need to love you." just help to perpetuate assholish behaviour accross generations and I'll have to interact with those fucked up kids when they're adults. It's not that your kids need yo fear you its that you need your kids to fear you; you shouldn't be a parent. Note that I am speaking from a purely modern western perspective where the signification of violence and authority is calibrated a certain way.
     
  19. WhateverYouLike

    WhateverYouLike Well-Known Member

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    I have yet to see a child that was spanked/beat that didnt cower in fear when viewing his parents and wasnt gonna be a fucked up human being when he grows up. Whats your point?
    According to the awesome peer reviewed article, 90% of American households spank their kids at some point. I'd assume at least some of your friends aren't fucked up human beings. EDIT: Whoops, forgot you weren't 'Mericun.
     
  20. Fuuma

    Fuuma Well-Known Member

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    According to the awesome peer reviewed article, 90% of American households spank their kids at some point. I'd assume at least some of your friends aren't fucked up human beings.

    EDIT: Whoops, forgot you weren't 'Mericun.


    It was a joke showing that bullshit statements about anecdotal evidence didnt lead to interesting conclusions. Having some dude tell me the belt made him whole doesnt mean shit to me.
     

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