Spanking

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by uvmboi13

You should be locked up. It is called abuse.

It is called discipline. Some things are not so simple, and hitting does not automatically equal abuse.

 

[Dedalus]

I was on the fence about spanking, and then I listened to this
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TIP: to embed Youtube clips, put only the encoded part of the Youtube URL, e.g. eBGIQ7ZuuiU between the tags. Maybe Louis CK isn't the role model parent, but I thought about the times I was spanked. Totally didn't ******* work. I was spanked for getting kicked out of summer camp for cursing. I say the most awful **** of anyone I know. I was spanked for hitting my mom during a tantrum. Today, I resent my mother and think of her as weak/stupid, although I love her.

 

[Mark from Plano]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

Have you ever beaten a girlfriend? I mean sometimes there is just no other way to make them understand.
:roma: Since you asked, my children are 17 and 15 and I've never spanked them. Personally, I think there are better ways to discipline. I'm just not a big fan of 22 year olds who've never had responsibility for themselves, much less raising another human being, lecturing parents about what is or isn't abusive. Not sure if that's what's going on here in the two cases above, but I suspect it is from their tone. But I might be wrong, that's why I asked. Comparing swatting a 3 year old on the rump to get his attention to lashing an adult to a pole and beating them as they do in Saudi Arabia (as someone else did) or smacking your girlfriend across the mouth (as you have) is really sad and pathetic. Arguing that it's not terribly effective or that its counterproductive (as the study cited earlier in this thread does) is fine. As I said, I'm not a big fan of spanking and don't do it. It was done to me and I'm not a big fan. I was much more dogmatic on the issue earlier in my life. But the mistakes I've made over the years and the impact of actually being responsible for raising another human have made me less dogmatic and judgmental on the issue. It's a closer call than some on this board want to make it out to be. And I'm willing to give other parents the benefit of the doubt. If it goes over the line into abuse...then it's clearly wrong. No marks, nothing around the face or whatever. But if we're talking about a couple of swats on the rump with your hand and it isn't done in a rage, I'm simply not willing to equate that to Saudi Arabia or beating your girlfriend.

 

[HgaleK]

I've been around kids who were and weren't spanked, and in general. those who were spanked tend to be more driven, more respectful, and act a little more mature. One confound here is that most of them are first children too, so I won't call it causation. I do know that every kid with the exception of two that I've ever known to be spanked, don't act like bastards to their mothers. Also, every kid who I know that goes around telling their moms to **** off doesn't get spanked.

A lot of people don't seem to get that being spanked isn't a regular thing. If you're acting stupid and don't really give a **** about grounded (hell, give me a few good books and I'm set for days), that getting spanked gets the message across. I've never seen someone find an effective alternate method. My girlfriend's mother has spent tends of thousands on therapy, shrink sessions, and counseling for herself on effective parenting methods, and her son to figure out why he acts like a bastard, and he still doesn't listen to what she says. My brother did the same thing, got his ass whipped for, and now doesn't have that problem. Life goes on for him, but he knows that if he pushes it too far with my mom that it'll suck.

*The not done in rage part is important. My parents generally didn't have that issue, and the one time that my dad ever stepped over the line, he was pissed and it turned in to more of a fight than anything.

 

[Prada_Ferragamo]

I was spanked alot when I was growing up by my mother. My father rarely hit me except on a couple of occasions when I was been really stupid (stole money from my mother's purse to go the the arcade). I think spanking really disciplined me and made me respect my parents and my elders. I think I would never spank a girl, but if I have a boy, I will spank him under the necessary conditions.
Kids have no respect for their parents and other authorities anymore. I have seen teens cursing at their parents in public before, and the parents just stood there cluelessly.

I asked myself where was the discipline.
For those who say spanking equals abuse, look at our society today. Kids are so undisciplined that it's shameful. I agree that there are kids out there that are abused, but when it comes to discipline, spanking is still a resourceful tool.

 

[Dedalus]

Originally Posted by Prada_Ferragamo

Kids have no respect for their parents and other authorities anymore. I have seen teens cursing at their parents in public before, and the parents just stood there cluelessly.

I asked myself where was the discipline.
For those who say spanking equals abuse, look at our society today. Kids are so undisciplined that it's shameful. I agree that there are kids out there that are abused, but when it comes to discipline, spanking is still a resourceful tool.

See whenever these examples are brought up, I wonder how these parents act. Are they the people that feel entitled to drive while on a cell phone, jaywalk, etc. the people for whom the rules don't apply? Because there's a lot of asshole morons out there, and a lot of them have kids that they set examples for in behavior, so I think regardless of spankings, there's going to be a lot of asshole kids.

 

[IUtoSLU]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

Have you ever beaten a girlfriend? I mean sometimes there is just no other way to make them understand.

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

:roma:

Since you asked, my children are 17 and 15 and I've never spanked them. Personally, I think there are better ways to discipline.

I'm just not a big fan of 22 year olds who've never had responsibility for themselves, much less raising another human being, lecturing parents about what is or isn't abusive. Not sure if that's what's going on here in the two cases above, but I suspect it is from their tone. But I might be wrong, that's why I asked.

Comparing swatting a 3 year old on the rump to get his attention to lashing an adult to a pole and beating them as they do in Saudi Arabia (as someone else did) or smacking your girlfriend across the mouth (as you have) is really sad and pathetic. Arguing that it's not terribly effective or that its counterproductive (as the study cited earlier in this thread does) is fine. As I said, I'm not a big fan of spanking and don't do it. It was done to me and I'm not a big fan.

I was much more dogmatic on the issue earlier in my life. But the mistakes I've made over the years and the impact of actually being responsible for raising another human have made me less dogmatic and judgmental on the issue. It's a closer call than some on this board want to make it out to be. And I'm willing to give other parents the benefit of the doubt.

If it goes over the line into abuse...then it's clearly wrong. No marks, nothing around the face or whatever. But if we're talking about a couple of swats on the rump with your hand and it isn't done in a rage, I'm simply not willing to equate that to Saudi Arabia or beating your girlfriend.

Wow. What a great response. Thank you.

 

[spertia]

I can't believe that there are so many future spankers on here. I have kids and would never spank them. I think that it is simply wrong to hit little people. Physical violence as a punishment/lesson? No thanks.

 

[cross22]

Originally Posted by spertia

I can't believe that there are so many future spankers on here. I have kids and would never spank them. I think that it is simply wrong to hit little people. Physical violence as a punishment/lesson? No thanks.
Nah, most of them won't. They just don't know wtf they are talking about until they have kids.

 

[Prada_Ferragamo]

Originally Posted by Dedalus

See whenever these examples are brought up, I wonder how these parents act. Are they the people that feel entitled to drive while on a cell phone, jaywalk, etc. the people for whom the rules don't apply? Because there's a lot of asshole morons out there, and a lot of them have kids that they set examples for in behavior, so I think regardless of spankings, there's going to be a lot of asshole kids.

I agree with you on asshole parents with asshole kids, but even beyond that, I see many kids who are spoiled and over-privileged despite economic status of their parents. My parents love me, but they drew boundaries between love and spoiled rotten. If my parents said no, it meant no; not may be. I knew the limit that I could push.

 

[Matt]

Originally Posted by spertia

I can't believe that there are so many future spankers on here. I have kids and would never spank them. I think that it is simply wrong to hit little people. Physical violence as a punishment/lesson? No thanks.
come here and say that you *****. I'll kick your ass! Incidentally I also have no issue with physical violence as a moderation tool around here, but that's a whole nother thread.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by cross22

If you believe spanking is an appropriate form of punishment/discipline for children would you think it is also appropriate for adults? Why not tie someone to a pole and whip the **** out of them the 3rd time they get a speeding ticket? Viva Saudi Arabia.

Because higher forms of thought are physically impossible for children. The concept of "reasoning" with a four year is a joke. The physical aspect of the brain has not reached a point where one can abstractly understand certain things the typical adult can, hence the difference in treatment. Before you tell me how wrong I am, just do a little reading of brain myelination in development.

My father was old school, and by old school, I mean he was born in 1903. He believed in spanking. He died when I was nine, and my mother adopted a wooden paddle. She broke it on my when I was 11 and that was the last time she hit me. My mother was hitting me more out of frustration of her situation than as punishment, IMO.

Still, I believe limited physical punishment is appropriate, up to a certain age. When kids have reached certain developmental stages, as has been noted above, the mere threat of physical punishment is usually enough to curb behaviours.

 

[Dedalus]

Originally Posted by spertia

I can't believe that there are so many future spankers on here. I have kids and would never spank them. I think that it is simply wrong to hit little people. Physical violence as a punishment/lesson? No thanks.
I actually tried to spank my kid once. He was in an irreconcilable rage of a tantrum, and I really wanted to get him to chill out and get his attention. So I put him over my knee, pulled his pants down, and patted his butt, trying to gauge what the effective swat level would be. My wife and I were laughing at how ***** of a spank it was, but I really could not gauge my strength to his toddler pain threshold at all, so in the end I didn't bother trying. He calmed down after that, but I think moreso because he was weirded out by the situation than anything else. I honestly don't see how people can spank their kids without any element of anger.

Originally Posted by Prada_Ferragamo

I agree with you on asshole parents with asshole kids, but even beyond that, I see many kids who are spoiled and over-privileged despite economic status of their parents. My parents love me, but they drew boundaries between love and spoiled rotten. If my parents said no, it meant no; not may be. I knew the limit that I could push.
I don't think spoiled and over-privileged behavior is dependent on economic status for adults either.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Because higher forms of thought are physically impossible for children. The concept of "reasoning" with a four year is a joke. The physical aspect of the brain has not reached a point where one can abstractly understand certain things the typical adult can, hence the difference in treatment. Before you tell me how wrong I am, just do a little reading of brain myelination in development.
Yes, but what sort of behaviors warrant that physical punishment that can't be waited out until they can be reasoned with? I have not come across any so far, but my case might not be the norm.

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by cross22

Nah, most of them won't. They just don't know wtf they are talking about until they have kids.

I'm not in the business of being my kids friend. I am in the business of raising kids that will be successful, healthy adults that will be able to have friend, relationships and be good citizens.

I don't want to go around beating on my kids, but I want them to be disciplened. they need to understand that there are consequenses to their actions.

 

[cross22]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Because higher forms of thought are physically impossible for children. The concept of "reasoning" with a four year is a joke. The physical aspect of the brain has not reached a point where one can abstractly understand certain things the typical adult can, hence the difference in treatment. Before you tell me how wrong I am, just do a little reading of brain myelination in development.

My father was old school, and by old school, I mean he was born in 1903. He believed in spanking. He died when I was nine, and my mother adopted a wooden paddle. She broke it on my when I was 11 and that was the last time she hit me. My mother was hitting me more out of frustration of her situation than as punishment, IMO.

Still, I believe limited physical punishment is appropriate, up to a certain age. When kids have reached certain developmental stages, as has been noted above, the mere threat of physical punishment is usually enough to curb behaviours.

I don't need to look it up, there are other ways to achieve the same effect (Pavlovian response) without using violence.