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Shoulder expression

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by jefferyd, May 25, 2011.

  1. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Well-Known Member

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    You are confusing imaginary things with real things.

    What jefferyd usefully describes as "shoulder expression" is different from shoulder padding. All shoulder expressions can be padded. Or not. A roped shoulder can be padded. Or not. A natural shoulder can be padded. Or not. And a shirtsleeve shoulder can be padded. Or not. And so on. The two elements work in concert with the cut, fabric, and chest constuction to make up what we see as the shoulder.

    Some of these shoulder expressions are associated with specific styles that may or may not typically use padding or wadding. That is a different thing altogether. For example, the more specific form of the phrase "natural shoulder" as used in American collegiate style involves a pressed seam at the shoulder with shoulder padding.

    Virtually no on on SF wears an unpadded shoulder. Very few jackets posted are made with nothing in the shoulder, and most of the ones so made that are shown here are very casual, often summertime, jackets.

    The OP has taken apart Savile Row jackets from many makers and probably the least important difference among them was the marginal differences in shoulder padding. All of them...even Dege and Huntsman...tend to be rather minimalist in their approach compared to what remains common in cheaper RTW with their spongy shoulder pads made to fit no particular man.

    Why does it seem that the vast number of tens of men (do you think that the number has even gotten to 100 yet? really?) out of the thousands and thousands of SF members (many of whom have never posted a photograph) have sought out more softly made bespoke clothes?

    No guesses other than that they are all idiots? Really?


    - B


    [​IMG]
     
  2. jefferyd

    jefferyd Well-Known Member

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    ... - B
    I make more sense when it's you who is doing the talking.
    The OP has taken apart Savile Row jackets from many makers and probably the least important difference among them was the marginal differences in shoulder padding. All of them...even Dege and Huntsman...tend to be rather minimalist in their approach - B
    Well, there was this from Caraceni... [​IMG]
     
  3. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    - B

    I think a lot of people confuse shoulder padding with sleevehead and seam treatment.
     
  4. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Well-Known Member

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    Well, there was this from Caraceni...
    [​IMG]


    I believe the guy that made that now works for Mattress R Us
     
  5. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    For those of us who like the pillow top.
     
  6. jefferyd

    jefferyd Well-Known Member

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    Thing is, from what little i have seen of the owner of the suit, it probably wasn't uncalled for.
     
  7. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    There are Three Feats of SF Sartorial Manhood. What you describe is one of them.

    The second? Figuring out how to open and pass through the doors at Charvet.

    The third?

    I'm not saying.


    - B


    I have two under my belt.

    Oh wait, I think I recall the third is actually ridding one's self of the belt and graduating to braces. Working on that...
     
  8. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    Poor kwilk.


    - B


    Well, I was speaking in terms of sartorial manhood after all...
     
  9. jack220

    jack220 Active Member

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    The problem with internet forums, and one in particular, is that there are far more "experts" than there are people who actually know what they are talking about, and the "experts" are usually the loudest.

    Jeffery, which forum? AAAC, CT, SF? [​IMG]

    On topic, you might want to include a picture of the concave / pagoda shoulder.

    Shoulder types - concave, 'straight' and convex (those droopy, bumpy, sloped types)
    Sleeve - roped, natural, knocked down.

    Can't think of any other variation.

    And this should go on your blog as well, along with the post on pants corrections
     
  10. kasakka

    kasakka Well-Known Member

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    Nice thread.

    I have a pretty fundamental question:

    Why do suit jackets generally have so much padding? I recently bought my first unstructured jacket and really like how it looks very natural. A little bit of padding would make it look more formal, but who are these people who need excessive amounts of padding as you find on some, especially cheaper, suits?
     
  11. Parker

    Parker Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Serious question: Until the final minute of that video, I thought the crooked vs. straight was an adjustment for one's body so the cloth would hang correctly down the front, but then he said he preferred the straight method. So, is it just a tailor's preference? I always thought an unbuttoned jacket should not look much different (i.e. more open or more closed) than when it was buttoned. Sorry for the derail jeffrey.
     
  12. Despos

    Despos Well-Known Member

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    IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later. I AGREE

    TIP: to embed Youtube clips, put only the encoded part of the Youtube URL, e.g. eBGIQ7ZuuiU between the tags. [​IMG] - B

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] Thank you for the video V. Haven't seen this before
     
  13. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    Could somebody explain the stitching near the sleevehead of this shoulder? I have seen it both with lapped and unlapped sleeveheads.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Despos

    Despos Well-Known Member

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    The seam is pressed open at the top of the sleeve. One outlet goes into the sleeve and the other comes back under the jacket shoulder. The stitch is more decoration than function but it is holding the outlet in place. Pressing the seam open is most common and the topstitch is purely optional.
     
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  15. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Chris, that is what I suspected.
     
  16. Mute

    Mute Well-Known Member

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    Great post! Very enlightening.
     
  17. Prince of Paisley

    Prince of Paisley Well-Known Member

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    The seam is pressed open at the top of the sleeve. One outlet goes into the sleeve and the other comes back under the jacket shoulder. The stitch is more decoration than function but it is holding the outlet in place. Pressing the seam open is most common and the topstitch is purely optional.
    Is this also sometimes referred to as an "AMF topstitch" - after the machine which creates the stitich?
     
  18. Despos

    Despos Well-Known Member

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    Jefferyd answered this one. AMF was the name of a machine that produced a machine stitch that simulated a hand stitch. The machined hand stitch is called AMF.
     
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  19. Prince of Paisley

    Prince of Paisley Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I must have missed that post. American Machine Foundry IIRC..?
     
  20. Mr Herbert

    Mr Herbert Well-Known Member

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    is there any guidance towards what type of shoulder treatment to receive?

    is it a case of going with what the tailor naturally does? are certain treatments more suited to certian garments?

    for example, i use hong kong tailors and have usually asked for roped shoulders on suits, and natural shoulders on sports jackets, mainly because i see natural shoulders as being a little less formal...

    or am i better off sticking to one style which suits my build better?
     

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