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Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Oyaji, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. mimo

    mimo Well-Known Member

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    Poetic licence, perhaps, of a goodyear construction re-sewn by hand? Your idea is more interesting, though!
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
  2. isshinryu101

    isshinryu101 Well-Known Member

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    But then it is BS. The most important aspect of Goodyear is the GLUED ON FABRIC welt.
     
  3. arahat

    arahat Well-Known Member

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    isshin, perhaps you should have a look at the bootmaker's extensive tumblr/instagram and photos on his work and construction before you comment further. As a purveyor of vintage footwear, you are of course well placed to know that being educated on a subject helps when commenting on it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  4. arahat

    arahat Well-Known Member

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    Very nice wurger, one of the best soft chisel toe last around I think. Very nice austerity brogue pattern as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
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  5. wurger

    wurger Well-Known Member

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    It's actually quite rare to find a chisel round toe, mostly just semi square ones!
     
  6. DWFII

    DWFII Well-Known Member

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    Without the original last it's kind of an exercise in wishful thinking. If the gemming has failed so extensively that rewelting to a new insole is the only option, the question becomes whether the shoe is worth the effort. An effort that involves several hours of labour and materials that were not originally present.

    Does it make sense? I suppose everything is relative but again without the original last, it's hard to see how.
     
  7. DWFII

    DWFII Well-Known Member

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    I looked at all those photos...it doesn't look like the same shoe to me.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. chogall

    chogall Well-Known Member

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    He hand welt on gemming, not create a new holdfast on a new insole.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. DWFII

    DWFII Well-Known Member

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    Shoe is nearly new. No dirt or sweat affecting the insole. No gemming failure. Don't need the original last. Not Traditional hand welted. We need a new term...HG--hand gem welted.

    Bottom line...little or no gain when done, esp. with lightweight thread.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. chogall

    chogall Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    To give the guy some credit he does make hand welted boots with modified lasts. Not the cleanest work I've seem but sufficient for work boots.
     
  11. chogall

    chogall Well-Known Member

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    How do you tell it's lightweight thread?

    It looks different than those usual heavy waxed and conditioned white threads I've seen in various pictures and videos.
     
  12. DWFII

    DWFII Well-Known Member

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    The white thread is generally paraffin waxed if it is waxed at all. But, more importantly, the thread in the photo just looks thin to me. The Tradition/standard calls for 10-12 strands of #10 linen or hemp yarn waxed and twisted into a stout thread--for men's dress shoes, and heavier for work boots.

    I would estimate the thread in the photos to be, at max, eight strands and maybe even six.

    If it's a synthetic, it may be just as strong as a heavier linen thread but because the surface area is so reduced it is more likely to tear the leather--the welt, the holdfast, the upper. And of course it carries less wax and is almost certainly not filling the hole that is it sewn through, so the sealing effects are reduced or eliminated.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
  13. isshinryu101

    isshinryu101 Well-Known Member

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    Not intending to criticize this gentleman. I am sure his work is very nice. Thank you, Chogall for finding that pic to show that the gemming is still present.
     
  14. isshinryu101

    isshinryu101 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I was simply asking a very good question about your claims.

    Chogall has found this photo and shown that the shoeman did NOT "not create a new holdfast on a new insole", but rather simply attached a new welt to the Glued On Gemming.

    This is NOT a true "handwelt" (which uses a feather handcarved into the insole).

    I suggest that you follow your own advice and "(be) educated on a subject helps when commenting on it."
     
  15. j ingevaldsson

    j ingevaldsson Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Pretty much all cobblers do the welt stitch by hand if they need to change the welt, and make a new welt stitch. Since it's not a pretty common operation, it makes no sense to have a huge and expensive Goodyear machine taking up place in your workshop. The only pro against a machine made welt stitch would be that the cobbler does a lock stitch, but to say that the shoe is made into a hand welted shoe doesn't make sense.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. arahat

    arahat Well-Known Member

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    This is what he did to the Trickers and some other boots with extensive wear/use.

    [​IMG]






    Another pair with what I assume to be a new leather insole with new holdfast?

    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. DWFII

    DWFII Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much right although rewelting the entire shoe when it is not needed, doesn't make a lot of sense--which addresses Issy's question.
     
  18. arahat

    arahat Well-Known Member

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    I do intend to find out the truth as well. I was told that a new leather insole was used and the holdfast was hand carved.

    I am guessing he uses a new insole and hand carves a holdfast for resoles/rebuilds of boots with extensive wear but for boots that are new or with little wear, he does the handwelted gemming thing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
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  19. DWFII

    DWFII Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to tell what he's doing from the photos. And the terminology he's using doesn't help. A "footbed" is what happens to a good leather "insole" after it has been worn a while. It is not the same as the insole.

    I know this may seem pedantic to people that really don't know...or care...but knowing and using the proper terminology is important, otherwise we may as well be grunting at each other.

    For instance an insole is not "carved," it is channeled, feathered and sometimes holed prior to ineaming. Sockliners are not insoles. Hand sewn gemming is not handwelted construction. And "handwelted Goodyear" is an oxymoron. There is no such thing...and those who insist on using that terminology perpetuate misconceptions and misinformation. I'm not dissing your friend, I'm speaking in a broader sense since we see a lot of this incorrect terminology used, and even promoted, here.

    --
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  20. chogall

    chogall Well-Known Member

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    It looks like he glues an additional layer of leather and welt on it. Don't think he replaces the insole for the top one.

    For the bottom one it looks interesting; there's a lot of gap between upper nailed at the heel and the insole, and the cavity creates by the welt and the insole is quite pronounced with his technique of no carved holdfast.

    Maybe DWFII could shine some light on the issues.
     

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