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Shaq Retires

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by sonick, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Well-Known Member

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    I prefer to think of Shaq as having diverse interests, rather than being an underachiever. Just like the Williams sisters.


    Um, not very?
     
  2. Fraiche

    Fraiche Well-Known Member

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    1. Wilt 2. Kareem 3. Shaq 4. Russell 5. Hakeem
    Take each man in their prime season, Shaq would manhandle each and every one of them in the paint.
     
  3. Brogued

    Brogued Well-Known Member

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    Take each man in their prime season, Shaq would manhandle each and every one of them in the paint.

    1995 NBA Finals say otherwise.
     
  4. StephenHero

    StephenHero Well-Known Member

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    Take each man in their prime season, Shaq would manhandle each and every one of them in the paint.

    lol no.
     
  5. fir3fox

    fir3fox Well-Known Member

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    1995 NBA Finals say otherwise.

    To be fair Shaq was still fairly young. They did get swept and I'll agree that Hakeem out performed him in the series but the the discrepancy between their individual performances wasn't that big.
     
  6. FLMountainMan

    FLMountainMan Well-Known Member

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    Take each man in their prime season, Shaq would manhandle each and every one of them in the paint.

    You're joking, right? Don't give me that "those guys didn't play against many big people" nonsense. Shaq didn't play against many big people either.

    Wilt Chamberlain was only ten to twenty pounds lighter than Shaq in his prime, the same height and athletic enough to have been a collegiate high jumping champ. Also a better passer and defender.
    Hakeem was noticeably better than Shaq when they faced off. Hakeem actually had a diverse array of moves.
    I'll give you Russell, but barely. Russell was skinny, not much of a scorer, and gave up two inches to Shaq, so maybe Shaq would've outplayed him - on the offensive end certainly.
    Kareem - I've always thought Kareem to be overrated. I have no basis for thinking that, I just always have. So, yeah, I think Shaq would've outplayed him, but I have no good argument for thinking that way.
     
  7. 6up

    6up Well-Known Member

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    ...cant wait for him & Barkley to pair up for game commentary.
     
  8. gladhands

    gladhands Well-Known Member

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    1) Kareem
    2) Wilt
    3) Shaq
    4) Olajuwon
    5) Robinson

    I will entertain swapping Kareem/Wilt or Shaq/Hakeem, but otherwise, thats' the list.
    With the exception of Wilt, no pre-merger center could could start in the 5-spot in today's NBA. Bill Russell was Dennis Rodman with a higher basketball IQ. That's not a knock. Dennis Rodman is a hall-of-famer.
     
  9. StephenHero

    StephenHero Well-Known Member

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    Kareem over Wilt? Wilt is the most dominant team sport athlete not named Wayne Gretzky of the last century.
     
  10. gladhands

    gladhands Well-Known Member

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    Kareem over Wilt? Wilt is the most dominant team sport athlete not named Wayne Gretzky of the last century.

    Honestly, that one can go either way. I give Kareem the edge because he was a modern-era player and the sky-hook is the most unstoppable weapon in any sport.
     
  11. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Well-Known Member

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    - Michael Jordan
     
  12. Baron

    Baron Well-Known Member

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    He was no doubt a dominant player, but just imagine if he'd had a work ethic? Wilt worked out like a fiend when no one else did, Hakeem always tried to improve his game and footwork, Shaq just ate. He's a good guy, never made the headlines, but I still think of his career as underachieving.

    a good charitable guy who should have averaged 40/20. end of story. his peak should have been his median.
    I put him behind wilt, kareem, hakeem, russell and even mikan probably. at least we are getting to see the 2nd coming with dwight howard, an affable guy who will never be what he should be


    This is what I've always thought. If Shaq had the Jordan/Kobe mindset, he would have had a 40/20 peak that lasted 5 years. The only thing that would have slowed him down would be refs that started calling the game differently for him. Then again, I think that Jordanesque mindset is as rare as Shaq's physical tools. Both are incredibly rare "talents."

    You're joking, right? Don't give me that "those guys didn't play against many big people" nonsense. Shaq didn't play against many big people either.

    Wilt Chamberlain was only ten to twenty pounds lighter than Shaq in his prime, the same height and athletic enough to have been a collegiate high jumping champ. Also a better passer and defender.
    Hakeem was noticeably better than Shaq when they faced off. Hakeem actually had a diverse array of moves.
    I'll give you Russell, but barely. Russell was skinny, not much of a scorer, and gave up two inches to Shaq, so maybe Shaq would've outplayed him - on the offensive end certainly.
    Kareem - I've always thought Kareem to be overrated. I have no basis for thinking that, I just always have. So, yeah, I think Shaq would've outplayed him, but I have no good argument for thinking that way.


    Kareem is underrated now because he played so long that we remember the aging golem playing out his career with Magic. And because he's so unlikeable. But in the 70's he was freaking unstoppable. The greatest pure scorer ever, and great great rebounder and shot blocker. He was a beast.
     
  13. gladhands

    gladhands Well-Known Member

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    - Michael Jordan

    That's different from "Who is the greatest center of all time". His wondow of utter dominance was pretty small, and he led his Rockets to quite a few early playoff exits. Fact is, having Hakeem as the anchor of your team did not guarantee success for most of his career.
     
  14. IndianBoyz

    IndianBoyz Well-Known Member

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  15. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    If Shaq had only worked on the court as hard as Mourning...........
     
  16. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting. Wonder if his opinion has anything to do with the urban legend that Portland offered Houston the #2 pick in the 1984 draft and Clyde Drexler in exchange for Ralph Sampson. If Houston made this trade, they would have selected Olajuwon #1 and Jordan #2. Can you imagine Olajuwon, Jordan, and Drexler playing together for 10-12 years of their prime?
     
  17. foodguy

    foodguy Well-Known Member

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    wilt played in a different era. shaq could have been this era's wilt. that he wasn't is only due to his own lack of fire and discipline. this is not necessarily a criticism. guys like mj, kobe, even bird, are not particularly happy people in the larger sense. i can think of only one player in the last 20 years who has been able to be super-competitive and still have a real sense of joy ... magic.
     
  18. Fraiche

    Fraiche Well-Known Member

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    You're joking, right? Don't give me that "those guys didn't play against many big people" nonsense. Shaq didn't play against many big people either.

    Wilt Chamberlain was only ten to twenty pounds lighter than Shaq in his prime, the same height and athletic enough to have been a collegiate high jumping champ. Also a better passer and defender.
    Hakeem was noticeably better than Shaq when they faced off. Hakeem actually had a diverse array of moves.
    I'll give you Russell, but barely. Russell was skinny, not much of a scorer, and gave up two inches to Shaq, so maybe Shaq would've outplayed him - on the offensive end certainly.
    Kareem - I've always thought Kareem to be overrated. I have no basis for thinking that, I just always have. So, yeah, I think Shaq would've outplayed him, but I have no good argument for thinking that way.


    FYI fellas, 1995 was NOT Shaq's prime. Laker years was his prime.

    FLMountainMan:
    According to wiki, during Wilt's prime when he was destroying the record books, he was 250-275. It was only when he joined the Lakers did he exceed 300. Shaq started off at 300 lbs.

    Hakeem was in his prime, Shaq was a newbie. Shaq in his Laker years is a different beast.

    I actually disagree with you on Kareem. I think he would be the best matchup of all the centers listed because Kareem would not need to significantly alter his offensive strategy due to his hook shot.

    For the most part, Shaq would force the other centers to be more of a jump shooter further out from the paint.
     
  19. Sesame Seed

    Sesame Seed Well-Known Member

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    lol no.
    Perhaps not Wilt, Russell and Hakeem, but he'd molest KAJ. The man's a beanpole.
     
  20. thinman

    thinman Well-Known Member

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    I would round out my top ten with Moses Malone, Robinson, Mikan, Walton, and maybe Dwight Howard (a bit premature, but he'll probably be there). Ewing could be there too, but his playoff record isn't strong enough.

    Good call on Malone. I'd forgotten about him.

    I realize this is the conventional wisdom, but I consider Wilt just as skilled a passer. Wilt, in the latter half of his career, was forced to become a great passer due to rule changes, defensive adjustments, and media/team pressure. In fact, he remains the only center to ever lead the league in assists.

    Still it's hard to compare the two.

    Walton never played a lot of minutes, the highest minutes per game he achieved was 34.8. His highest assist per game average was 5.0.

    Wilt, meanwhile, average sixteen seasons of 40+ minutes, with a career average of 45.8 minutes over sixteen years (Holy Shit! This was before they had the trainers they do today). His highest assist per game average was 8.6, with three other seasons of 5.0+ assists.

    Still, http://www.basketball-reference.com/...chambwi01.html and http://www.basketball-reference.com/...waltobi01.html allows us to compare average per thirty six minutes. I.e., if each player had played thirty six minutes they'd've collected these stats.

    Walton's five best seasons, he had, per thirty-six minutes, assist averages of
    5.2
    5.4
    4.7
    4.5
    3.9
    Mean of 4.74

    Wilt had
    6.6
    6.2
    4.0
    3.6
    3.7
    Mean of 4.82

    Pretty damn close.


    Nice analysis. I only got to watch Wilt for a season or two and never realized he was such a good passer.

    ...
    as for walton ... maybe the top 5 college centers ever? not the pros. hard to lionize someone who only had 3 seasons of more than 60 games. he's a great "could have been". shame too, a real character.


    Right on. Walton had a much better career in college compared to the NBA. Although I can't stand him as an announcer (The latest play/player is the best he's ever seen), his writing is hilarious.

    Take each man in their prime season, Shaq would manhandle each and every one of them in the paint.

    No. Wilt would stand up well to anyone from any era. The man was a beast ahead of his time.

    ...cant wait for him & Barkley to pair up for game commentary.

    I agree. It would be a non-stop laugh-fest. I love listening to Barkley.
     

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