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Saint Crispin vs Vass

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by ShaneB, May 2, 2011.

  1. chogall

    chogall Well-Known Member

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    Aug 12, 2011
    Correction: John Lobb only produce bespoke shoes in Paris; their RTW is made in the old EG factory. SC is nowhere close to John Lobb bespoke in terms of both quality and construction.

    Just curious, are you willing to pay the same premium price for a pair of shoes thats made in China, Vietnam, or Bangalore at the same standard as SC?
     
    2 people like this.
  2. yosef777

    yosef777 Member

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    Oct 19, 2013
    Meister,
    I understand your point of view and I agree SC's are not inexpensive. Can I assume you also stunned at the cost of Lobb, Gaziano & Girling, both of whom have a similar price point of SC's or is it that you feel there is a stigma attached to 'Made in Romania' , of which I understand but do not subscribe to?
    The fact that Vass also offers handmade shoes (of lesser quality than SC's, IMO) at a lower price point is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is that I feel SC's are of significant better quality than Vass. So regardless of the fact that Vass produce handmade shoes at a significant lower price point they are not as nice as SC's so I wouldn't invest in them again.
    Allow me to use an algebraic influenced analogy; if tailor A will produce a suit for x amount of $ but the quality, fit, etc. is not a good as tailor B, who charges twice as much $, I would prefer tailor B. Yes, both tailors make handmade products but tailor B, IMO, produces a higher quality product and that is more important to me. Obviously some people will differ in their opinion which is fine so it comes down to personal preferences, economics, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  3. yosef777

    yosef777 Member

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    Oct 19, 2013
    Chogall,
    Thanks for the clarification/correction, I thought the Hermes/John Lobb were produced in Paris. (Which helps explain why my Hermes/Lobb shoes didn't impress me as much as my SC's.)
    Also, I agree that the bespoke John Lobb is of higher quality than SC's (as would most any reputable bespoke shoemaker, Cleverly, G&G, etc.). but that is apples vs. oranges IMO.
    As far as paying a premium on products manufactured in China, Vietnam, Bangalore that is a bit speculative and therefore difficult to respond to. Also, I am not aware of any products that are manufactured in those countries that are on level with those produced in England, France or Italy. Generally speaking, if the product is of superior or equal quality the country of origin/manufacture is of lesser importance IMO although I understand others may not agree.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  4. meister

    meister Well-Known Member

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    Yosef you buy the shoes you like. The price is incidental to the purchaser. You like 'em... you buy 'em.

    I just think that the advantage of low wage manufacturing should be passed onto the purchaser. Unless the manufacturer in Rumania is prepared to pay its cordwainers the equivalent wage to a cordwainer in London... I would rather see the difference in my pocket rather than the manufacturer. That is supposed to be the way it works.

    The nature of the world is that certain countries (like PRC or Rumania) have lower wages than first tier nations.

    At the same time they have lots of skilful people. That is why there is significant investment in those countries and wages can rise eventually and an increased standard of living follows.

    I would be interested to know how much of the USD1600 the shoemakers are getting a week in Rumania.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  5. yosef777

    yosef777 Member

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    Meistser,
    I agree, everyone buys what they like and it comes down to personal preference. My original post (and the subject this thread) was to express my reasoning for why someone should/would pay twice as much for SC's compared to Vass.
    As far as the manufacturer passing on the cost savings on to a consumer as 'the way it is supposed to work' that is open for debate IMO but is probably better suited to a thread on business, economics, ethics, political ideology or a combination of all of the above: )
    I would say this, in the somewhat, socialistic/capitalistic scenario you described (savings/costs passed onto the consumer) perhaps the workers are sharing in those profits. Unfortunately, I don't know that but if the article linked below is any indication SC's claims that its 'key employee's' have been with them for more than 20 years.

    http://www.claymoorslist.com/portfolios/phillip-car-saint-crispins
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
  6. gaseousclay

    gaseousclay Well-Known Member

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    I do not own either SC or Vass but comparing quality, style and construction between the two is comparing apples to oranges IMO. Vass offers hand welted shoes, great styles and use quality leathers and construction at a lower price point. SC also offers the same thing at a higher price point.

    I would gladly own both brands but if I had to pick one I would choose SC, and that is purely from an aesthetics view point. I think their shoes look far more attractive compared to Vass' occasional clunky offerings. Is SC worth $1600+ a pair? Perhaps. If they're only producing a finite number of shoes per year then it might be worth more because more time/care goes into producing each pair. I've never heard anyone talk about SC seconds, so they must be very particular about each pair of shoes that leaves their factory.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. gaseousclay

    gaseousclay Well-Known Member

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    Being overpriced is a matter of opinion. Let's use AE as an example. AE is considered an economical entry level shoe. They make their money by churning out thousands upon thousands of shoes each year. They also seem to get a fair number of returns on those shoes because of QC issues, or because of indecisive customers. Paying $1600 for a pair of SC shoes isn't something many of us can afford, so I think a great deal of thought and consideration goes into buying SC before pulling the trigger. My point being that you as the customer are probably less likely to order SC's unless you absolutely knew they fit and were of a style you wanted. Plus, the cost of returning the SC's would add to everything. AE probably loses a lot of money on returns because they churn out a lot of garbage. My guess is that SC does not.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Stefan88

    Stefan88 Well-Known Member

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    Oslo
    I'm sure you're aware, but don't forget that there is still a John Lobb made in London, although different to the RTW and paris bespoke. Their shoes are made in London and possible outworkers.
     

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