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Random health and exercise thoughts

Discussion in 'Health & Body' started by Eason, Dec 20, 2009.

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  1. jarude

    jarude Well-Known Member

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    me hurting myself was more of a function of me not addressing an injury and instead training through it. i could have just as easily fucked myself up doing literally anything else; not to mention, what does any of that have to do with attempting 1rms more than once a year?

    edit: and by "totaled my shoulder and elbow fascia" i think you meant "bad case of tennis elbow"
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
  2. Cool The Kid

    Cool The Kid Well-Known Member

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    If u arent competing in PL, what is the point of 1RMing

    Its not worth the work/risk for some people.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
  3. jarude

    jarude Well-Known Member

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    you made a post about underestimating your 1rm after basing your sets x reps on percentages as incredibly specific as 77%, no more, no less.... which happens to be a typical scheme that would be used by, say, powerlifters. this is after asking a powerlifter about his input on said powerlifting-style routine, wherein literally every movement of mention is calculated down to the weight and rep, based on - you guessed it - your 1rm.

    i don't know what else to say other than go try a 1rm if you're going to twist your panties in a knot over 5x4 @ 85% and 4x6 @ 77%. it's possible to do singles - not catastrophic-failure-of-all-human-body-systems-singles-1rm - to a point of losing speed, or form failure, or grind-out-til-you-get-a-nosebleed failure. if you are really so concerned about your percentages that are being based off a 1rm, you should probably do a 1rm once in awhile.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
  4. Cool The Kid

    Cool The Kid Well-Known Member

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    Only person twisting their panties into knots is you dude, calm the fuck down. Plenty of competitive PLers don't 1RM outside of competitions and use theoretical 1RMs for gauging 1RM progress and programming. I chose my %ages for where I am with my bench at different rep ranges (65% ~ 185, 77.25% = 205, 85% = 225) and are hardly set in stone. So again not really sure what you are raging about.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
  5. jarude

    jarude Well-Known Member

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    defensive much? you asked what the point of 1rm'ing was if you weren't competing in PLing. i pointed out how you provided a context for doing a 1rm based on what you have been writing about, and hence a case for doing singles. you said you underestimated your 1rm, so, go do a 1rm already if you think you're underestimating it. past that, if you're only talking in percentages purely as a different way to notate any given lb figure as you have stated, and not for any practical reason as it relates to programming, what relevance does 1rm even have if you aren't even using it as a meaningful indicator of anything? why would you even mention it if it means nothing?

    my initial point was that people seem scared of doing singles anywhere remotely near max for some silly reason - unless you are doing a legitimate, smelling-salts-and-heavy-metal-chest-thumping-at-a-meet-make-the-lift-or-die-1rm, you really don't have to worry about fucking yourself up any more than you would at any other level of high exertion - that is unless you have shit form."risk" is a shit answer for not doing singles, especially if you talk about doing doubles or triples in the same breath. "1rm" doesn't mean "go load up +50lbs of what you can actually handle, fuck yourself up and then cry to RHET about how 1rm's are dangerous." 1rm - a training 1rm that would be used to set percentages for the rest of your programming - can/should be a heavy single to just before form breakdown. chances are, if you fuck yourself up acutely doing a single in that manner yet train at other relatively-heavy rep ranges you were probably already fucking yourself up chronically with the cumulative effects of shitty form.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
  6. Cool The Kid

    Cool The Kid Well-Known Member

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    I dont wanna do singles. U have yet to really say anything Im missing out on by not doing them. Put those keystrokes towards writing a swimming guide and lets move on.
     
  7. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Well-Known Member

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    I'd like that swimming guide!
     
  8. barrelntrigger

    barrelntrigger Well-Known Member

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    Damn, 45 plate weighted side bends and leg lifts got my abs rock solid and sore! Good stuff! DAmn, I'm making all sorts of noob gains. But, I've lost a bunch on my bench...[​IMG]
     
  9. jarude

    jarude Well-Known Member

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    you get stronger, form improves, and you get more confidence under the bar with heavy weights. i'm just poking holes in your logic, that's all
     
  10. fuji

    fuji Well-Known Member

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    Don't you quite often say you train for powerlifting? Probably important to occasionally do singles if you want to eventually compete in doing singles.
     
  11. Coldsnap

    Coldsnap Well-Known Member

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    Since I can't do this powerlifting meet in NOV I'm going to pick up this strongman meet coming up. I've already practiced a lot of the movements earlier this year, just need to get my frame deadlift up.
     
  12. jarude

    jarude Well-Known Member

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    why cant you do the meet?
     
  13. Cool The Kid

    Cool The Kid Well-Known Member

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    U dont need to do singles to accomplish these things.
     
  14. Coldsnap

    Coldsnap Well-Known Member

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    I'll be in another state that weekend.
     
  15. jarude

    jarude Well-Known Member

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    do another one then


    really? thanks for that, because i was very obviously under the impression that singles and singles only are the only way of going about those things

    "u" asked for a reason, i gave "u" several, now can "u" please move on and put "ur" keystrokes towards something other than talking about "ur" powerlifting-style training for not-powerlifting?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  16. conceptionist

    conceptionist Well-Known Member

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    Tbh, you don't build much strength with a single 1RM attempt, you just test your strength. You know that.
    I don't see any reason to do 1RMs in training, unless its part of the training plan. The longer time you spend building muscle, improving technique (of which both are prob best done with a lot of repetitions around the 65-90% range), the higher your real maxes, strength, gains, whatever you want to call it, will be.

    You don't need to lift close to your 1RM in the strictest form of the lifts at all. For instance, the highest percentage I go in my competition style deadlifts in training is singles at 85%, and somedays I do squats with a pause around 60%. I still get a good training effect. Of course, it all depends on the context and one reason my percetages are low could be that I lift very often and with higher volume. I'm just saying that you don't need to lift close to your 1RM, any repRM, or failure, to get a training effect.
     
  17. jarude

    jarude Well-Known Member

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    absolutely not. you can "test" strength with a balls-out, make-the-lift-or-die 1rm attempt, or you can also train using singles at percentages near max, or at a particular RPE, or to the point of form/speed/whatever breakdown. you have a plan from a powerlifting coach, that's great and it clearly works, but that doesn't discount people who lift and get stronger by using singles as a regular part of training. getting stronger at X rep range and Y % doesn't exclude the same from happening with singles.

    my point is that people are scared of singles for no reason other than "risk" yet turn around and recommend doubles/triples; its dumb. or they say that there's no reason to attempt singles if they aren't competing in PLing yet continue to use flat barbell bench as a main movement. poor logic. RPE is a much more accurate indicator of what is risky or not at any rep range; simply because a 10RM seems light in comparison to a 1rm doesn't mean there's a 10x difference in how fucked up you get if you do something stupid with one weight versus another. you can just as easily fuck yourself up on a 5RM at 10 RPE, but nobody thinks 5RM is super risky because people train with 5's all the fucking time. if people trained 1's like they did 3's, 5's, or 10's, nobody would be scared of them.

    if people don't want to do singles, that's fine; i'm just pointing out that people are discounting the idea of doing singles first and then looking for evidence to support their position afterwards... despite the fact that the rhetorical questions and positions they are using to support themselves after the fact directly contradict the other stuff they're doing, ie not doing 1rm's because they aren't PLing yet using flat bench as a main movement. dumb.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  18. Coldsnap

    Coldsnap Well-Known Member

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    the only reason i do this meet is because its walking distance and is in a really nice place. not really that interested in driving 6 hours to do a meet.
     
  19. conceptionist

    conceptionist Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you on this. I wrote that you absolutely can do singles if its part of the training plan, like the Bulgarian system.
    For practical reasons however, its in most cases favorable to go with some more reps per set to get in the needed volume. You need to reach a certain volume threshold to get the highest training effect and doing say 15 singles (or whatever the threshold is for heavy singles) will take longer time than doing 3 sets of 8. There is also a real difference on joint health, CNS recovery, etc between regularly doing singles above 90% and 5's around 75%. I'm also on your side about people who don't do singles but still do rep work to major form breakdown.

    I think its funny how som many people online say that "you have to squat ATG", yet they don't have any rules that judge their depth like a PL fed and their back angle looks like a camel as soon as they pass parallel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
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  20. jarude

    jarude Well-Known Member

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    yeah, agreed. i think singles are great, hence why i'm being incessant about defending them. i don't have any particular affinity for them outside of "it worked for me," though - to be honest, i would much rather be doing a plan that's laid out as your coach has done whether or not there are singles involved.
     

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