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Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by LA Guy, May 15, 2015.

  1. Fuuma

    Fuuma Well-Known Member

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    Guys, this article leak is a serious thing for some of us. I'm currently thinking the CE should be nuked. There are always remnants but making it harder to access the archives would solve 95% of the problem I believe. Indexation is entirely unable to follow the speed of information production so it should get lost in the flow.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Baron

    Baron Well-Known Member

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    That article is unfortunate, and Manton actually comes off pretty well in talking to the reporter, and sounding rather vulnerable and sincere (which is the way he often sounds here, too). I don't agree with on much politically, but I do like him because of that sincerity, and his obvious intelligence, and I admire his writing.

    I guess I read stuff like this all the time about people that I don't "know," and I think nothing of it, but it feels cheap to mock him for liking good food and wine and clothes. I guess it hits a little too close to home...
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  3. oulipien

    oulipien Well-Known Member

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    To me he comes off much worse (simultaneously foolish and self-impressed when not outright stupid and odious) in the excerpts on every topic other than clothes and wine, about which, sure, whatever, we all have enthusiasms. It's especially hilarious to me that he's apparently done so well because of his association with Peter Thiel, a man whose idiocy and self-regard have reached a magnitude rivaled only by that of his wealth.
     
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  4. happyriverz

    happyriverz Well-Known Member

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    To bring it back to fashion, I thought it was funny that in the first Intercept article about Manton, he is described as wearing an "unfashionably wide" tie. I guess anything wider than 2 inches is still considered "old timey."
     
  5. double00

    double00 Well-Known Member

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    fake news brah

    well it's a commentary piece and another slice off the brisket i guess. i thought it was entertaining both in tone and for the novelty of seeing SFers quoated off-thread.

    once on a road trip i wanted to catch up on my stories but i was driving so i had wifey audiobook some of my subscribed threadz. 'off scroll' it's pretty different and often very funny.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  6. Gruff

    Gruff Well-Known Member

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    It's fine for a person to have a little money and be able to afford nice things.

    What's really offensive to people is someone who has money and can afford nice things, and indeed indulges in those nice things in his daily lifestyle while waxing poetic about them on an internet fashion forum, yet presents himself with his political philosophy as a champion of the "common man," when in reality the existence of someone like Manton (at least as described in that article) and the average minimum wage worker in this country is so different as to be virtually irreconcilable.

    I'm sure Manton doesn't have to worry about summary dismissal for no cause, irregular swing shifts, a shitty Obamacare plan (or no health insurance at all), toxic work environments, or affordable day care for children, among other things, even before taking into account minimum wage that hasn't kept up with inflation in the past 30 years.

    Let's not forget the fact that his apparent connections have led him into an ever escalating series of elite jobs, both in remuneration (Blackrock) and prestige (NSC). This, in contravention to the people who he supposedly cares about, who are lucky to have jobs, assuming they can find them in their local area, usually with no avenue for advancement.

    Which is all to say, when I see articles like this I find the Come to Jesus moment wholly unconvincing. I'll be impressed when someone like Manton does an extended residency, perhaps 18-24 months, in a place like, say, Floyd County, Kentucky, working on, for example, opiate addiction issues. Real grassroots, in the trenches type stuff where nobody sees you working hard to save lives except the people you're immediately helping, and nobody gives a fuck what kind of fancy wine you drink because that shit's so far out of their daily life experience they can't even comprehend it.

    He should put his (apparently fat wad of) money where his mouth is instead of simply virtue signalling.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2017
    5 people like this.
  7. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Just because you are of one social class doesn't mean that you can't sympathize with the plight of another. Politicians putting on Levis and a plaid shit is just theater. As for Manton himself, I'm not sure that he had a "Come to Jesus" moment. His views, with which I do not agree, and which we've discussed ad nauseum over the years, have been fairly consistent. Of course, I've "known" him for close to 15 years now, and I'd hope that anyone with a brain would change their minds about something over the span of a decade and a half.

    And with that said, let's take this to CE, if you guys like. Or I can just move all these posts there.
     
    5 people like this.
  8. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  9. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised to read that anyone is shocked or concerned that their posts on an internet forum can be read by others, and that they may be judged on the basis of the ideas they put forth or the arguments they make. Isn't that obvious? Aren't we responsible adults here?
     
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  10. g transistor

    g transistor Well-Known Member

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    That's right. I'll never be ashamed if someone reads that I once wrote a post about poached eggs and bespoke handjobs.

    Never
     
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  11. Gruff

    Gruff Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. I don't know anything about the man beyond what's in that article, so I defer to your 15 year association. I'm just immediately suspicious of people with money claiming to care about people with none.

    And agree that this topic should be moved from this thread.

    Edit to Add: I agree with DWW that the article in general is a total hitpiece, though, especially given the source.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  12. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    That shouldn't be surprising, but it's sad to see posts taken out of context, and used to retrofit a poorly built narrative, rather than thoughtfully and carefully going through the data to find the true narrative.

    It's clear the piece was a smear job. The point that the quotes are accurate and facts (as standalone pieces) are true doesn't get at the underlying issue. Historians and journalists don't just string together factoids. They create stories and narratives for us to understand those factoids.

    The narrative in that story is that Manton is a crypto-fascist Patrick Bateman. I don't believe the crypto-fascist part, and frankly am kind of sad that we're in a political space where everyone gets painted in those terms. (I say this as someone who doesn't share any of Manton's views, and am worried about genuine crypto-facists out there).

    If someone thinks his interest in clothes and wine discredit him, God help us all. I couldn't agree more with Baron's post above

    Today's media is all about emotional registry and sensationalism. Which is, frankly, part of the reason why politics now is so dysfunctional. This article plays to that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  13. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not commenting on the article itself but on the fallout here resulting in discussions about nuking forum sections, mass deletion of post history, etc...

    It's like we're realizing that we've been writing on an internet forum. First thing I thought when I saw the first articles about Manton was that journalists will quickly find the goldmine that is his very long and prolific activity on SF CE
     
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  14. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough.

    I don't know if anything can be done. Everything is archived on the internet.
     
  15. Fuuma

    Fuuma Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure we were all aware of that but there is a long way between rational understanding and rational action. I knew the chicken would come home to roost at some point but I'd really appreciate if the forum administration took energetic measures so it doesn't affect Manton more and won't affect anyone else in the future. I dunno how indexing works but nuking it now might be quite effective over the mid to long term.

    Let's not minimize this, I don't think the forum interest in archiving this (who looks for 2009 discussions in the CE) balances out against individual interest of all participants. We need to act to protect people...
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  16. Fuuma

    Fuuma Well-Known Member

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    Don't be too naive here, indexing and searchability and the ability to recoup is way more important that the data "existing" somewhere. Let us reduce risk by a large margin and let time destroy the rest.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. cocostella

    cocostella Well-Known Member

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  18. oulipien

    oulipien Well-Known Member

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    Do we, though? And if so, which people? If he's got the views attributed to him (and the Claremont and other articles sure suggest that he does), and has been expressing them consistently for a long time, and he has the position of consequence in the government that he apparently has, why should he be protected from people learning about how he expresses them under cover of pseudonymity and obscurity? I'm not nearly enough of a proceduralist to think that people in general deserve such protection regardless of the substance of their views, especially when (as is in his case quite plausible) public knowledge is in the public interest.
     
  19. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    If you think Manton is an actual Nazi, you're insane.

    Quite seriously.

    This is how his posts are being used. They're used to support a stupid narrative that he wants to set up a white nationalist state. If you believe that, you are insane.

    The guy didn't comb through Manton's posts to find what he truly believes. He had a story in mind, and went through his posts to find the craziest stuff possible, then framed them completely out of context.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
    1 person likes this.
  20. oulipien

    oulipien Well-Known Member

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    I … don't recall having said or suggested that I think any such thing?

    ETA: but I do think that the articles published under the name "Publius Decius Mus"* are things whose authorship by a NSC official is completely reasonable matter for reportage. (& he's either deluded or deluding on the topic of America First.)

    * Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus, as the fellow said
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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