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Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by LA Guy, May 15, 2015.

  1. nicelynice

    nicelynice Well-Known Member

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    What is the specific aversion to MiC goods? The people sewing aren't skilled? The machines aren't as good?

    If you want bad stitchwork at luxe prices, just pick up Made in Italy Rick Owens stuff!! Country of origin is only a starter, it's not the answer.
     
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  2. jet

    jet Well-Known Member

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    Canada Guy Eh
     
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  3. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Frankly, it's a vestige of the "Yellow Peril" racist anxieties, which has a lot of components, but boils down to the East overrunning the west. If you read copy, you'll hear Chinese goods alternately described as being of inferior quality, of being of technically perfect, but soulless. It's not that difficult to see this as an extension of typical racist views about Asians, and Chinese in particular.
     
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  4. nicelynice

    nicelynice Well-Known Member

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    There's a big difference between Nanamica making jackers in China and K-mart making t-shirts in China (which they aren't doing anyways, because labor costs in China are too high!!) -- Japanese labels like Visvim, Nanamica, Attachment, etc. that do some production in China are presumably using different factories than stuff that ends up in the mall
     
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  5. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

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    There's definitely more to it than the racist explanation.

    There's an element of value or perceived value. We like to know what we're paying for and the cost of labor in China is so dramatically lower than in higher cost countries, that we tend to have a generally negative reaction to expensive goods that end up being made in China. No one bats an eye about a $5 tee shirt made in a low cost country - but when we're paying top dollar, it's sometimes difficult to get comfortable with the idea that it was made at an hourly labor cost that is 1/10th of that other jacket there that looks comparable to me but was made in Italy/UK/Japan/US...

    It's the disconnect that people (at least here) often have a problem with.

    There are other issues related to transparency, labor conditions, etc... but not necessarily to the quality of stitching or finishing, etc...
     
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  6. g transistor

    g transistor Well-Known Member

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    My biggest issue... Made in USA/IT/JP doesn't mean made fairly—exploitation happens everywhere and is rampant in the US. It's a colonialist outlook, similar to what LA Bro describes, i.e. Western countries and Western-accepted countries are automatically superior.

    Which is why I tend to not give a shit about Made in China or Made in Japan. If it's good it's good, and you gotta trust that the brands you are choosing to support are making good decisions on production. You just can't really ever know, unless you're trying to buy only extremely transparent brands, and even so, you have to wade through whether or not the stuff reported is marketing fluff. A lot of it is just built on trust.
     
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  7. jet

    jet Well-Known Member

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    China made tools are trash, facts.
     
  8. nahneun

    nahneun Well-Known Member

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    Please support our Dear Marshall, Kim Jong Un, and buy only the Greatest Products in the World, made in the Greatest Country In the World, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. I can personally attest to the Best Quality of all goods made in the DPRK, as all the Happy and Liberated Comrades enjoy the Great Benefits of Communism and are not Slaves to the Evils of Capitalism. Marshall Kim Jong Un personally inspects each item before it leaves the Communal Factory.
     
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  9. penanceroyaltea

    penanceroyaltea Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting to see that many in SWD don't really mind MiC so long as product design and quality is up to par. It feels like the anti MiC sentiment is a lot more of a CM thing.

    But it probably is so that many CM items are better made/better quality in Europe cf China..

    I'm Chinese but I can't help but feel if I'm paying top dollar for a Japanese brand for example, I'd much prefer it to be made in Japan.
     
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  10. Nik Telford

    Nik Telford Well-Known Member

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    Part of it as well is that when a CM brand moves to MiC it's generally associated with a drop in quality. Take a look at brands like Florsheim, G.H. Bass or the fact that part of Allen Edmond's production is now in China. The vintage items from these brands are sought after by enthusiasts because of the quality associated with them. No one cheers when a brand moves production to China.
     
  11. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    It's a weird feedback loop. Since CM guys care more about country of origin tags, only companies who are willing to sacrifice that signal are the ones who move production to China. If the tags didn't mean as much, you'd probably see more companies doing quality work in China. But if you're going to spend that amount in production, you probably also want the signal.

    Less traditional companies do all sorts of manufacturing in China -- a lot of them terrible, but also some of them good. I think partly because the signal is slightly weaker (even if it still means something).

    Lots of companies secretly move part of their production to China, then do the finishing somewhere else for the purpose of using a country of origin label. At the end of the day, clothing production systems are so complicated, so factionalized, and so internationalized, I don't know what those tags even mean. Take cashmere sweaters. Raw materials come from China/ Mongolia, then shipped some place for sorting, combing, and spinning into yarn (top-end will be in Scotland). Then that yarn is shipped somewhere else for knitting (maybe UK, maybe China, maybe Eastern Europe, maybe somewhere else). Some could even ship to Italy then for washing/ finishing.

    At the end of all that, it's hard to say what the single country of origin tag even means. The actual production process was broken up into half a dozen bits, and sent around the world.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  12. OccultaVexillum

    OccultaVexillum Well-Known Member

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    Looking for DBF stuff and found this shop from their list of stockists:

    http://openershop.co.kr/home/

    The site is a straight up Mr Porter clone. It's weird, but I'm surprised this doesn't happen a lot more frequently.
     
  13. now i'm totally forgetting if this back to the future line was being discussed here or another forum

    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
     
  14. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    A lot of the lauded brands do a significant part of their work in developing countries, or in countries in the poorer parts of Europe. A number of footwear brands that are well regarded by CM, do the lasting, welting, and finishing in the UK, but the clicking and sewing, which is a great deal of their production, is done in developing countries. The only pairs done completely in the UK are MTM and MTO, where the logistics make it more reasonable to do all within the same factory.
     
  15. penanceroyaltea

    penanceroyaltea Well-Known Member

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    Haha Omg you're right. Who'd ever buy from them when the site is so dodgy?
     
  16. Baron

    Baron Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of RRL stuff is MIC and that stuff is made to a pretty high standard.
     
  17. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Ralph Lauren seems to be the one company that is able to flaunt all conventional wisdom and still do okay. That they can sell at so many distribution points with all sorts of prices without decreasing the value of the individual brands, all bearing the Ralph Lauren name, is pretty amazing.
     
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  18. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    I agree, although there was a CM thread lately about how the company's recent troubles proves those basic business fundamentals about not overextending/ diluting your brand are important. Basically the idea that the RL brand has become too confused.

    Actually think the whole hiearchy makes sense. RLPL is probably a loss leader that lends values to lower Polo lines (and Polo lends value to Lauren). But hard to say whether side projects like RRL and Denim & Supply make money (or even make sense).

    In just the last couple of years, they've closed RLBL and Rugby, and are talking about closing RRL. So maybe they're going back to a basic consolidation/ simplification of the brand.
     
  19. penanceroyaltea

    penanceroyaltea Well-Known Member

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    The RL shop here seems to be doing terribly - always empty even on the weekends.. doesn't seem there's much hype about the brand at all.
     
  20. ChetB

    ChetB Well-Known Member

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    RL needs to revive their 90s designs.
     
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