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Putting Off The Married Life

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by SoleBajan, May 12, 2009.

  1. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    I meant a serious answer to the question of marriage and prenuptial agreements, not another mini-commentary on my e-persona.

    I'll ask once more, although I'm not optimistic about getting a serious response out of you or edmorel. What is so laughable about a pre-nuptial agreement?


    One serious question to you before I give you a serious answer, how old are you and what is your current vocation?
     
  2. MetroStyles

    MetroStyles Well-Known Member

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    One serious question to you before I give you a serious answer, how old are you and what is your current vocation?

    Just shy of 25 and management consultant.
     
  3. itsstillmatt

    itsstillmatt Well-Known Member

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    I meant a serious answer to the question of marriage and prenuptial agreements, not another mini-commentary on my e-persona.

    I'll ask once more, although I'm not optimistic about getting a serious response out of you or edmorel. What is so laughable about a pre-nuptial agreement?

    In most states they are simply not necessary. Pre-wedding assets are not community property, and everything made in marriage is split. They are notoriously hard to enforce. Just set up a living trust with all of your assets going in. That is the easiest, and most efficient, way to do it, in my legal-know-nothing opinion.
     
  4. MetroStyles

    MetroStyles Well-Known Member

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    In most states they are simply not necessary. Pre-wedding assets are not community property, and everything made in marriage is split. They are notoriously hard to enforce. Just set up a living trust with all of your assets going in. That is the easiest, and most efficient, way to do it, in my legal-know-nothing opinion.

    That's a good point. I guess what I find to be unfair is the idea that if I use a lot of my money to buy a house shortly after marriage, that in the case of a messy divorce I could lose the house despite it coming primarily for my earnings (much of which were pre-marriage). I don't claim to know these laws like the back of my hand, but it just seems like an awfully scary scenario that could unfold. I understand that if a woman mothers your children and provides more non-monetary qualities to the marriage, she should not be penalized and left with nothing upon divorce. That would not be fair. I just worry about me being left with much less than I should be. Perhaps it is an irrational fear.
     
  5. kwilkinson

    kwilkinson Well-Known Member

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    Nothing says love like a pre-nup.
     
  6. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    Just shy of 25 and management consultant.

    Serious answer: Unless you have large assets going into the marriage, there is no point. Love/marriage is not an analytical excercise, eventually you will come to realize that. The chance of finding a girl that will not tell you to go fuck yourself when you bring up the prenup are quite slim.


    Joke answer: Go gay, you won't have to worry about leaving your assets to the guy you are reaming/is reaming you, at least not in most states.
     
  7. nootje

    nootje Well-Known Member

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    In most states they are simply not necessary. Pre-wedding assets are not community property, and everything made in marriage is split. They are notoriously hard to enforce. Just set up a living trust with all of your assets going in. That is the easiest, and most efficient, way to do it, in my legal-know-nothing opinion.

    those are the basics.. When the woman in question is pissed off the game changes, let me explain with a real example..

    Lets say the couple was married for 10 years, whereas in those years the man was the only earner and there were no permarital assets to speak of. If they lived the good life, an income of 200.000 plus could easily be spend, so the only buildup of assets happens in a pension fund and their house. During the divorce she could ask for half the assets right? Wrong, she gets half of their "presumed" assets, given a savings rate of 20% he would have to pay up 200.000 and half of the worth of their house not even taking the pension fund into the equation.

    The problem lies in that the law often takes the stand that the husband is not of good will and as such takes the wife in protection, if the ex wife has a different agenda this protection becomes a powerfull weapon in the fight for assets.. Allthough im talking about dutch divorce law, not sure if the situation is the same in the states..
     
  8. MetroStyles

    MetroStyles Well-Known Member

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    Serious answer: Unless you have large assets going into the marriage, there is no point. Love/marriage is not an analytical excercise, eventually you will come to realize that. The chance of finding a girl that will not tell you to go fuck yourself when you bring up the prenup are quite slim.
    Thanks for replying seriously. I want to point out that I don't see marriage as an analytical exercise - I would never marry for wealth. I realize that already. It's just that I've seen marriages which were never entered with finances or analytics in mind end badly and messily. I was actually half-joking about getting a pre-nup to get some responses out of people, but there is an underlying fear I have that if things go wrong in marriage, not only will I be in a bad place mentally/emotionally, but also possibly getting reamed financially (see nootje's post above). I'd agree that it would be hard to get a woman to sign a pre-nup, which is unfortunate. On a related note though, what do you see as the benefits of marriage, outside of any kind of financial benefit (taxes)? I'm talking a legal marriage, not perpetual cohabitation and having children.
     
  9. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    On a related note though, what do you see as the benefits of marriage, outside of any kind of financial benefit (taxes)? I'm talking a legal marriage, not perpetual cohabitation and having children.


    This is an analytical exercise dunce.



    Dood, I met someone, I fell in love, we had sex, I married them , we had fights, we had sex, we had kids, we bought a house, we had sex, we have two cars, we work, we go out, we have sex, we go on vacations, we are planning for the future, we are raising our kids. I have yet to spend one minute thinking about what the benefits of being married have been. It is something that should just happen, it's not comparing a condo rental to a house purchase. You are either too young, phucked in the head about relationships, or have not met the "right" person yet. And yes, the right person could turn out to be the very wrong person later on. It's called life, you have to be in it to win it.
     
  10. Etienne

    Etienne Well-Known Member

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    It is something that should just happen
    I don't understand your point. You make a very good point about long committed relationships and how normal people don't enter in them with analytics in mind. But nothing in what you say explains why choosing one legal form for that relationship (marriage) over the other legal forms is supposed to be "obvious".
     
  11. MetroStyles

    MetroStyles Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Not sure I follow you there, eddyboy. You are pretty much implying that since it is tradition in your culture to legally marry someone you like and have sex with, that you just do it. That's absolutely fine, but don't pretend that your extremely traditional view is some kind of gospel.

    Remember, the only difference between what you are advocating and what I am is the legal papers. Don't confuse it with something else. I am not analyzing this part of what you wrote:

    "we had fights, we had sex, we had kids, we bought a house, we had sex, we have two cars, we work, we go out, we have sex, we go on vacations, we are planning for the future, we are raising our kids."

    You appear to be lumping a legal document validating a marriage with a settled-down family life with a woman.
     
  12. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Not sure I follow you there, eddyboy. You are pretty much implying that since it is tradition in your culture to legally marry someone you like and have sex with, that you just do it. That's absolutely fine, but don't pretend that your extremely traditional view is some kind of gospel.

    Remember, the only difference between what you are advocating and what I am is the legal papers. Don't confuse it with something else. I am not analyzing this part of what you wrote:

    "we had fights, we had sex, we had kids, we bought a house, we had sex, we have two cars, we work, we go out, we have sex, we go on vacations, we are planning for the future, we are raising our kids."

    You appear to be lumping a legal document validating a marriage with a settled-down family life with a woman.


    No, I could have done everything I said without being married and if you choose to, that is fine. My point is that for me it was an emotional decison, possibly a "personal morality" issue. Whatever it turns out for you, fine. But don't approach it like you are deciding between leasing a car or buying because if you do, you are missing the point.
     
  13. Etienne

    Etienne Well-Known Member

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    My point is that for me it was an emotional decison
    It's an interesting point, but adresses only a part of the problem Metro was discussing. You explain why you (and most people) get in a long committed relationship, not why choose the legal form of marriage for it.
     
  14. randallr

    randallr Well-Known Member

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    Cat and mouse.

    I don't see myself getting married without a prenup. Either I will ask for one, or she will be rich and too smart to not get me to sign one.


    I think this is like setting it up to fail. Almost like insurance on a relationship. If I even think I need one I really wouldn't marry her.
     
  15. TyCooN

    TyCooN Well-Known Member

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    Really why would you marry?
     
  16. kwilkinson

    kwilkinson Well-Known Member

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  17. TyCooN

    TyCooN Well-Known Member

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    This is stupid.
    because you're not capable of being the single man?
     
  18. kwilkinson

    kwilkinson Well-Known Member

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    because you're not capable of being the single man?

    No. Because the reason people get married is obvious, and one would have to be deliberately obtuse to question what the purpose of marriage is.
     
  19. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    I don't see what this "problem" is, if you want to get married with someone do it, if you do not, don't. What is there to analyze? Tax benefits? community property laws? life expectancy of married men vs. single men? Trying to prove that getting married or just living together is "right" is like trying to prove God exists/does not. Do whatever you feel is right for you and your partner's life. It just seems like very emotionally immature positiion to take to say "I am not going to get married until a do a cost/benefit analysis and figure out what the opportunity costs are"
     
  20. randallr

    randallr Well-Known Member

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    I think marriage is just the natural succession of things, similar to what Ed is saying. It's basically a legal commitment, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Maybe it is just something society has developed and nothing more or less special than a non-legal commitment. Who knows?
     

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