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Poll: Attolini vs. Rubinacci vs. Steed

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Montesquieu, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. tutee

    tutee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    180
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    Mar 15, 2005
    As for the bespoke trousers shown, I agree that the Rubinacci suit, Attolini dinner, and Steed suit trousers have excess room. The Rubinacci was originally even baggier, before I made a final (fourth?) visit to the Milan store just to have them taken in. Why the struggle? I presume that it stems from an unusual physique. In two weeks, I'll run my third mountain ultramarathon of 2010 before switching back to cycling. My legs are short relative to my height and muscular relative to my thin waist.

    It has NOTHING to do with how full or slim the pants are. As long as they are dress pants with crease the same fit / balance applies. My objection to them is not the roominess but the line of cloth is all wrong (unless you are assuming other than natural posture).

    Perhaps there's a well-tailored solution.

    Of course there is one. However, it depends on you too! These days you cannot walk into an esteemed tailoring establishment and expect them to take care of everything. All tailors do require some sort of input from the customers, especially if you are relatively a new customer.

    Most tailors of today create garbage when it comes to cutting pants. It is almost like not even important to them anymore. Again, not a question of slim or full but correct line / fall.

    Thank you for your pictures.
     
  2. Mr Herbert

    Mr Herbert Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,692
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    I can't help but feel that were I a smarter customer, I might get better results. Vox, Manton, Mao, PG, and others demonstrate this. My attention splits across too many interests, and I've simplistically relied on masters rather than learn enough to challenge them.
    ...
    Perhaps there's a well-tailored solution. Perhaps I'm doomed to look imperfect. Resignation to the latter reduces my expectation for the former. But the criticism is well taken, and I'll pay more attention in the future. I posted in order to get this kind of input.


    i wouldnt be so hard on yourself. all the suits and jackets range from great to excellent in my very humble opinion.
     
  3. maomao1980

    maomao1980 Well-Known Member

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    In response to so much criticism of my trousers, I'll say a few words about them. First, most of the non-suit trousers shown are slim-fit Incotex and Cucinelli. If RTW gets slimmer than that, I don't know where. Second, I like the way that Incotex and Cucinelli look and fit. The vitriole surprises me, but so be it. Third, don't presume that bespoke is the solution. My Ambrosis are baggier, despite multiple rounds of "thinning", and have been well criticized as such in other threads.

    As for the bespoke trousers shown, I agree that the Rubinacci suit, Attolini dinner, and Steed suit trousers have excess room. The Rubinacci was originally even baggier, before I made a final (fourth?) visit to the Milan store just to have them taken in. Why the struggle? I presume that it stems from an unusual physique. In two weeks, I'll run my third mountain ultramarathon of 2010 before switching back to cycling. My legs are short relative to my height and muscular relative to my thin waist.

    Perhaps there's a well-tailored solution. Perhaps I'm doomed to look imperfect. Resignation to the latter reduces my expectation for the former. But the criticism is well taken, and I'll pay more attention in the future. I posted in order to get this kind of input.


    I thank you for your genuine interest in receiving feedback. Reading the highlighted again, they are a bit troubling coming from a bespoke customer.
     
  4. lasbar

    lasbar Well-Known Member

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    i wouldnt be so hard on yourself. all the suits and jackets range from great to excellent in my very humble opinion.

    Horses for courses Montesquieu...

    Apart from older SF statesmen , you will always receive a certain level of criticism on this forum.

    Some people are so seeking the perfect lines ,cut or silhouette they forget we all different tastes and aesthetics...

    Less dogma and more pleasure must be motto of SF...
     
  5. kolecho

    kolecho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,166
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    OP,

    I suspect your trousers mostly suffer from long back balance. This is not uncommon at all in bespoke trousers. I recall seeing a Solito suit posted on SF that had worse trouser balance issue than yours. It is not difficult to fix next time you commission bespoke trousers, but you will have to live with them for RTW. The fullness issue is a matter of comfort and how the trousers look when paired with your coats. Proportionately shorter legs should benefit from slimmer cut trousers along the lines of your RTW ones posted (but with shorter back balance).
     
  6. fritzl

    fritzl Well-Known Member

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    12,299
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    Apr 19, 2006
    Location:
    Gmunden, Salzkammergut, Austria
    i wouldnt be so hard on yourself. all the suits and jackets range from great to excellent in my very humble opinion.

    Originally Posted by Montesquieu:

    In response to so much criticism of my trousers, I'll say a few words about them. First, most of the non-suit trousers shown are slim-fit Incotex and Cucinelli. If RTW gets slimmer than that, I don't know where. Second, I like the way that Incotex and Cucinelli look and fit. The vitriole surprises me, but so be it. Third, don't presume that bespoke is the solution. My Ambrosis are baggier, despite multiple rounds of "thinning", and have been well criticized as such in other threads.

    As for the bespoke trousers shown, I agree that the Rubinacci suit, Attolini dinner, and Steed suit trousers have excess room. The Rubinacci was originally even baggier, before I made a final (fourth?) visit to the Milan store just to have them taken in. Why the struggle? I presume that it stems from an unusual physique. In two weeks, I'll run my third mountain ultramarathon of 2010 before switching back to cycling. My legs are short relative to my height and muscular relative to my thin waist.

    Perhaps there's a well-tailored solution. Perhaps I'm doomed to look imperfect. Resignation to the latter reduces my expectation for the former. But the criticism is well taken, and I'll pay more attention in the future. I posted in order to get this kind of input.


    I thank you for your genuine interest in receiving feedback. Reading the highlighted again, they are a bit troubling coming from a bespoke customer.

    +1

    it seems to me, you wanted too much in a rather short period of time. the learning curve is still flat. could it be, that your foray into bespoke started rather late, so you lack the basic knowledge?

    Less dogma and more pleasure must be motto of SF...

    this
     
  7. radicaldog

    radicaldog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,638
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    1. Rubinacci
    2. Attolini





    3. Steed

    Steed is a very distant third in my opinion. This isn't a matter of Naples vs Savile Row: your Steed coats just don't look as harmonious as the best English stuff one sees around. Those coats are waisted in an almost comical way, and the torso looks a bit boxy. I like Vox's Steed stuff much better -- it looks like it's from a different tailor.
     
  8. ManofKent

    ManofKent Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,285
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Location:
    Garden of England
    Overall:

    1. Attolini
    2. Steed
    3. Rubinacci

    But with the odd exception. I would possibly have put your wild card as joint no. 1 though...
     
  9. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    20,793
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    Montesquieu, did you ask for a particularly slim waist from these tailors? The jackets generally appear a bit tight to me.
     
  10. Cravate_Noire

    Cravate_Noire Well-Known Member

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    This is not the ideology Hans&Fritz would approve of.
     
  11. Montesquieu

    Montesquieu Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Jul 24, 2007
    it seems to me, you wanted too much in a rather short period of time. the learning curve is still flat. could it be, that your foray into bespoke started rather late, so you lack the basic knowledge?

    True, I started late and purchased beyond my learning curve. Some history. I moved from Silicon Valley to Ireland in 2006. Needing a new wardrobe, I tossed my ill-fitting California clothes and regretfully wasted some money on Italian RTW (e.g., Prada). In 2007, my role expanded, I relocated to Luxembourg, and I needed an even better wardrobe. That's when my interest in clothing began, but without education or role models. I progressed in a matter of months in 2007-2008 from better Italian RTW (Al Bazar, Borrelli, Incotex) to MTM (Attolini, Castangia) to bespoke. Most of the bespoke was purchased mid-2008 to mid-2009. Did I lack basic knowledge? Yes. Did I trust that results would be acceptable without it? Yes. Were they? The more knowledgable of you don't think so. Your comments have inspired me to start paying more attention to trouser fit. The 4 Ambrosis I have on order will be a start, but I'll have to consider whether I'll seek modifications to my existing suit trousers. They didn't bother me until this thread. Now they do, so your input had effect.

    In sum, these outfits have flaws of an uneducated bespoke buyer. But since I like most of the MTM and bespoke that I purchased, I'm glad I took advantage of my time in Europe to purchase what I did, imperfections and all. (My RTW is mostly regretted.)


    Montesquieu, did you ask for a particularly slim waist from these tailors? The jackets generally appear a bit tight to me.

    No. I relied on the tailors' judgment for fit.
     
  12. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Well-Known Member

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    No. I relied on the tailors' judgment for fit.

    Now that is really interesting.
     
  13. SkinnyGoomba

    SkinnyGoomba Well-Known Member

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    Monte,

    One comment I would like to make is that the trouser fit may have been just right after a pressing by the tailor. Sometimes it takes a little wear to find out an article's short comings. Regardless I think most of them could be fixed with a few minor alterations. I would be tempted to make most of them longer, have the area under the waistband in the back tightened (this should get rid of the backs behind the thigh) and possibly have some of them tapered below the knee.
     
  14. TRINI

    TRINI Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Sep 7, 2006
    No. I relied on the tailors' judgment for fit.

    Now that is really interesting.

    It really is, considering teh recent Foo thread.

    If one can't rely on the bespoke expertise of the Rubinaccis and Steed to account for the client's body shape, then LORD HELP US ALL.
     
  15. Montesquieu

    Montesquieu Well-Known Member

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    Now that is really interesting.

    Was this meant condescendingly? I was and am still learning, and I trusted that tailors' fit judgment over my own. Given my three days experience in bespoke relative to their decades, this seemed prudent to me.

    I doubt that I'm the only bespoke client who doesn't micromanage fit, especially when working with tailors in another language.
     
  16. fritzl

    fritzl Well-Known Member

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    Gmunden, Salzkammergut, Austria
    True, I started late and purchased beyond my learning curve. Some history... ...when my interest in clothing began, it was without education or role models. I progressed in a matter of months in 2007-2008 from better Italian RTW (Al Bazar, Borrelli, Incotex) to MTM (Attolini, Castangia) to bespoke. Most of the bespoke was purchased mid-2008 to mid-2009. Did I lack basic knowledge? Yes. Did I trust that results would be acceptable without it? Yes. Were they? The more knowledgable of you don't think so. Your comments have inspired me to start paying more attention to trouser fit.

    as binge said, most of the pieces have to be seen IRL. imo, acceptable is a too low classification for the existing status. also your endurance sport might be a factor for change of measurements, not?

    the good things: you are inspired. nothing is lost in this game, i.e. if you read about vox's "reconstruction work". etc., etc.

    In sum, these outfits have flaws of an uneducated bespoke buyer. But since I like most of the MTM and bespoke that I purchased, I'm glad I took advantage of my time in Europe to purchase what I did, imperfections and all.

    to me this is most important.
     
  17. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Well-Known Member

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    Was this meant condescendingly? I was and am still learning, and I trusted that tailors' fit judgment over my own. Given my three days experience in bespoke relative to their decades, this seemed prudent to me.

    No, not at all. I had just assumed, when I saw your stuff, that you'd asked for a slim, modern fit. It's not limited to just one of the tailors, so I thought that was perhaps your preference. That it seems to be coincidental surprises me, but there's no insult wrapped up in that.
     
  18. SkinnyGoomba

    SkinnyGoomba Well-Known Member

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    Monte, they just want to know who to blame.
     
  19. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Most of the bespoke was purchased mid-2008 to mid-2009. Did I lack basic knowledge? Yes. Did I trust that results would be acceptable without it? Yes. Were they? The more knowledgable of you don't think so. Your comments have inspired me to start paying more attention to trouser fit. The 4 Ambrosis I have on order will be a start, but I'll have to consider whether I'll seek modifications to my existing suit trousers. They didn't bother me until this thread. Now they do, so your input had effect.
    I relied on the tailors' judgment for fit.
    If one can't rely on the bespoke expertise of the Rubinaccis and Steed to account for the client's body shape, then LORD HELP US ALL.
    I was and am still learning, and I trusted that tailors' fit judgment over my own. Given my three days experience in bespoke relative to their decades, this seemed prudent to me.
    Well, nothing looks uncorrectable to me and I stand by my opinion that you don't need to be an expert to get good results from a good tailor. I knew as little as you did when I first started with Rubinacci. I don't think anybody has suggested a client just go limp and remain 100% utterly passive during the bespoke process. However, you don't have to tell the tailor exactly what to do, either--you just need to take more time to digest each garment before ordering the next, then raise concerns at subsequent fittings. There are many issues that will not be obvious or arise until you've actually worn a garment around for a while. The tailor relies on your input on those issues to evolve your pattern. Ideally, you would front load all the growing pains in your first order from each tailor so that subsequent orders are all made on a much-corrected pattern. So, while I can't speak for you, starting up with three different bespoke tailors over the course of a single year sounds like an awful lot to chew on for anyone. In that light, I'm tempted to say that the results are surprisingly good.
     
  20. Redwoood

    Redwoood Well-Known Member

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    Attolini #5 and #7 are excellent.
    As is Steed #5, far better than the other Steeds in my opinion, very 'Savile Row' with better button placement and a more shapely waist (quite snug, though). Did you do something different for that one or maybe it's just the cloth?

    All are acceptable in my opinion, no need to beat yourself up. You have a low right shoulder, which I imagine would make most RTW look bad. Only Attolini bespoke and Steed dealt with the resulting asymmetry properly imho, though even there, mostly in the later iterations.
     

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