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On suicide

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by MarkI, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. FLMountainMan

    FLMountainMan Well-Known Member

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    I agree in many cases, but in others, like my own, I disagree. Doing things to take my mind off it eventually pulled me out of it. I actually think that talking to someone about suicide is overrated. I realize that sounds nuts, but what can the person possibly say that will end the depression? If they prescribe drugs, that's one thing, but just talking about it isn't as helpful as it's made out to be. Just my experience.
     
  2. YOLO EMSHI

    YOLO EMSHI Well-Known Member

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    ^ good comment, I'll probably live another night now.

    I don't know how anyone can truly delegitimise the rationality of suicidal thoughts, hence why saying there is so much to live for is just fucking annoying. The way I see it is when you're suicidal, you begin to either acknowledge everything you've had to ignore for your happiness, or stop being complacent about all the things you've had to accept about living.

    Personally the only reason why I haven't killed myself thus far is that I have very little regard to my self worth, so to die to not die really makes no difference for me, but I only ever get to this kind if catharsis after an extremely gruelling catatonic phase
     
  3. rach2jlc

    rach2jlc Well-Known Member

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    I agree that it is good to have things to take your mind off things, but I think also we have to distinguish between the shades of a very complex issue. There is malaise, melancholy, and it goes all the way to, literally, debilitating depression. In general, it's a good idea to keep yourself healthy and busy with exercise and work, but my point was only to say that suicidal thoughts and depression aren't easy things, and shouldn't be considered all just a case of "the blues."

    You didn't do this, of course, but I've heard so many times people talk about "just go out and run it off" that I cringe...
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Your situation sounds a bit like my best childhood friend at around the same age. We've drifted apart since then, but today he's married and has a 1-year-old daughter, and finally happy. I really need to get my ass down to visit him soon. It was really funny when he met her, too - I don't recall how they met but they knew each other in school, and he did something unusual and ran into her, and things changed from there.


    I think that once you hit a certain age, it's pretty well a given that some form of tragedy has hit your life and those of everyone around you.


    Yeah, there are a lot of things I've thought about talking out but it doesn't change the underlying issues. If I bitch about the Mrs. not cleaning up around the house, that doesn't make the house cleaner when I get home.
     
  5. acidboy

    acidboy Well-Known Member

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    Jeesh, hoff I just don't know what to say... Feel better, brah
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Actually, this idea's been percolating a bit and is still incomplete, but this board has a disproportionate number of very vocal alphas who have proven a degree of legitimacy over the years. This, in itself, is not a bad thing. But when you also consider there are a number of sub-alphas and aspirational alphas and straight-out liars about their alpha-hood, that tends to give a skewed view of the community. A lot of us are 'normal' behind the paychecks and under the clothing. We all have our failed hopes and dreams, lost loves, physical ailments, etc - but very few of us give much voice to that with good reason. No one wants to come to SF to read agony story after agony story. That said, I think we all have to remember that what you read on SF is mostly the triumphs and rejoicing, with the understanding that sorrow and disappointment always lurks under the surface, unspoken. Remember that the next time you try to measure your life against what you're reading here. None of us measure up against that yardstick.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  7. rach2jlc

    rach2jlc Well-Known Member

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    No you didn't. We all know you're both a troll and a sock, which is fine and we're all used to them. Some are more clever than others, and you had a great start with the DIY guides. lately, though, like all trolls, you're going off the deep end.

    This thread is not the place for what you said or how you said it. If it was intentional, then you are exactly the troll others have said. If it was serious, then it was crass and tone deaf, hardly worth being on a thread that is obviously very difficult for many people to speak about, and far more personal than the usual SF discussion. If you can't approach it with that in mind, and act accordingly, then go back to mending socks and turn off the computer for a while.

    I'm assuming others may have as well, but I (for one) reported your post and was very glad to see it deleted. I won't respond to anything else about it, as it will derail the thread, but I didn't want you playing victim and/or attention whore wondering what happened (though you probably know very well).
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  8. JLibourel

    JLibourel Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I thought i would add another interesting suicide to the litany of those I posted above:

    In the neighborhood where I grew up in Los Angeles, there lived an old veteran of the Spanish-American War and the Philippine Campaign. He really looked the part. He had a magnificent gray handlebar mustache and usually wore immaculate pressed khakis and a campaign hat. We usually addressed and referred to him simply by his rank, "Major." However, I guess today we would say Major had a severe case of PTSD. My mother said that as a little girl she could hear him screaming in the night (he lived three doors down from us). He was known to shoot stray cats that came on his property, this not too far from downtown LA! My mother warned me not to play in the vicinity of his house.

    One morning early in 1954, the adolescent girl whose family lived next door to him saw him walk out on the front lawn. She greeted him with a cheerful, "Hello, Major." He mumbled something in response, pulled out his old Government Model .45 auto and blew his brains out right in front of the shocked girl. The girl was so traumatized by the event that her family had to move elsewhere. This happened while I was away traveling in Europe with my mother. There were rumors that he had done this after receiving a diagnosis of testicular cancer, but you'd think a man of his years might be more philosophic about something like that.

    I feel a little bad about my previous catalog of suicides appearing just after Imhoff had posted his moving cri de coeur. It made me feel somewhat crass and shallow, but then, I suppose I am rather crass and shallow in general. I tend to think that a little sensitivity and introspection is probably healthy, but too much can be quite destructive.

    If I had to advise anybody, especially a young fellow of 30, about whether life is worth going on with, I'd certainly tell him to hang in. You never know when your luck is going to change. You may suddenly find a great job (I did after years of unemployment and underemployment), win a high-dollar lottery (no luck there for me!), meet the girl of your dreams (I'll take the Fifth on that) or any number of other good things. If you're only 30, you've probably got 50 years ahead of you, so try to make the best of them!
     
  9. rach2jlc

    rach2jlc Well-Known Member

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    Very true and good advice, Jan. I was in similar circumstances back in my early 20's, not really seeing how things were going to shape up and feeling a heavy malaise. I'd done everything "right" (all the right grades, all the right school, a number of job offers and offers of grad school, etc.) and it all just felt, blegh. What made it worse was that nobody understood, and I got a lot of the, "how can you be depressed... look at all yo'uve got/done!"

    The solution came, for me, in the strangest unexpected circumstances (as you said, a new job COMPLETELY unrelated to those other circumstances), which completely changed my outlook. A year before the change, I'd never have thought it possible. Again, everybody's circumstances are different, but I agree that time and circumstances can change quickly, often for the better.

    I also think that sometimes a complete change of venue can be a good option. Obviously, nobody wants to jump into the unknown blindly, but a new place, new circle, new activities, etc. (that are positive!) can often be a good idea... at least for me.

    It reminds me of this passage:
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  10. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    I've known a few people who've committed suicide. A friend's sister, another friend's mom, and an old college housemate. I'll spare the details of their deaths because I don't think they're necessary. I do think, however, that the "walk it off" and "control your life" advice here is somewhat silly. There are a hundred paths to suicide, and some of them are really, really long. The three people I know who committed suicide struggled with mental illnesses for years, some decades, and all three had gone through every treatment you can think of. I'm not saying there weren't solutions to their problems, but they weren't ones that could be solved with just morning jogs.

    Regardless, SF Suicide Prevention should be posted here because it's a useful resource. If someone lurking here is thinking of suicide, or has thought of suicide, I think these guys are a good place to turn.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  11. lasbar

    lasbar Well-Known Member

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    Suicide is such a complex issue we must avoid stereotypes.

    In the particular cases of mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder, no morning jogs or self motivation gimmicks will help you...

    What will help you is a correct diagnostic and the adequate treatment even if lifechange lifestyles are always helping ..

    I remember colleagues telling people they have to stand and get on with it...

    Ifit was that easy in these particlar cases...
     
  12. YOLO EMSHI

    YOLO EMSHI Well-Known Member

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    I wonder, if someone you knew with good reasoning (be subjective as you want here) asked you if they should kill themselves, would you say yes?
     
  13. lasbar

    lasbar Well-Known Member

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    Life is too precious and fragile to be lost by such manner and I'm also an optimist by nature..

    Apart from terminally ill people or suffering extreme physical pain ,I would like to think there are always solutions...

    In the particular cases of mental illnesses , treatments can improve quality of life...

    Every case must be judged on is own merit..

    Could you be more precise ?
     
  14. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    I'd hesitate to give anyone advice on whether they should end their own life, but I do believe in euthanasia. I also think the treatments we have for mental illnesses are considerably less advanced than those that we have for physical ailments, and that mental pain shouldn't be discounted as any less real than physical pain.
     
  15. lasbar

    lasbar Well-Known Member

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    Mental illness treatment have got better the last 20 years with the arrival of new molecules with less perverse side effects...

    It is a difficult field because mental issues cannot only analized through a cold rational approach...

    I do believe medical treatments are still in their infancy and very soon new molecules will allow people to have productive lives..
     
  16. MrG

    MrG Well-Known Member

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    As the person who first introduced the idea of exercise as a treatment/coping mechanism, I suppose I'll continue to defend it.

    I agree that exercise is not a panacea for the full spectrum of depression, but I also object to the fact that it's being dismissed by a lot of people in this thread. I take particular issue with the way exercise is being portrayed as tantamount to saying "walk it off." No one has said that, and implying that someone has taken that position serves to minimize a very useful therapeutic tool for dealing with depression.

    Again, as I said earlier in this thread's history, I'm not trying to say running laps is going to magically cure depression. Every case is different, and, just as certain people don't respond to certain types of meds, regular exercise isn't going to be the right treatment for everyone. However, it is a very, very useful approach, particular in mild to moderate cases. I should also note that exercise provides similar improvements in anxiety disorders, which makes sense given their common comorbidity.

    I posted a bit of research on the topic below. I thought it was particularly interesting that SSRIs provided quicker results, but exercise provided longer-lasting improvement. I wonder if that's tied to the fact that exercise represents a lifestyle change, rather than simply a treatment option.

    http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Exercise-and-Depression-report-excerpt.htm


     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  17. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    As a daily runner, I agree with this. I hope I didn't step too far and mischaracterize other people's arguments. My point really was that people arrive at the decision to commit suicide through many different paths, and some of those paths are very unlike the others.

    That said, I've personally found running to be a great way to lift the spirits. It's why I run and continue to run.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  18. JLibourel

    JLibourel Well-Known Member

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    Fixed
     
  19. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    With you, G. I used to be a pretty grouchy bitchy sumbitch, but regular activity changed that, I've been at it since college, and never looked back.


    Fair point.


    Jan, running isn't what did your knees in: it was all the sex you had in the 70's. It's a miracle your back still holds you up!
     
  20. JLibourel

    JLibourel Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I think I had more in 80's than the 70's.
     

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