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Official Wedding Attire Question/Answer/Picture Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by unbelragazzo, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Well-Known Member

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    Four in hand with those lapels, and collar spread? Out of the question, in my opinion. It will undoubtedly be Full Windsor for me.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    Well I guess that settles that...
     
  3. aravenel

    aravenel Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that knot looks ridiculous.

    B3 is definitely the least-bad of those options.
     
  4. mymil

    mymil Well-Known Member

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    Can you be talked down to at least a half Windsor? It's really too big.
     
  5. smoothmoose

    smoothmoose Well-Known Member

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    I think you get a full Windsor without being to buldgy. Just need to tie it tight.
     
  6. MrDaniels

    MrDaniels Well-Known Member

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    With the lapels on both the jacket and waistcoat scaled so large, (not to mention the large collar) a small knot would look ridiculous to everyone at the wedding except for the band leader. And that is assuming the bandleader is Stevie Wonder.
     
  7. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Well-Known Member

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    Agreed entirely. Those are all slap dash knots, trying to do as little pulling and winding of the ties as possible, to make sure they stay pristine for the consumer that ultimately buys them. I will tie it quite neatly and tightly when it is mine.
     
  8. MrDaniels

    MrDaniels Well-Known Member

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    Based on the time and care you have displayed in picking your wedding fits, I think you have more than proven that you know how to make sound choices. You don't need to be swayed by the Anti-Windsor Knotzis.
     
  9. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like you've got your mind made up, but let me just explain, for the sake of discussion, why I think the four-in-hand is better, particularly in this case. Please don't take this as argumentative. On your wedding day, if you decide to wear a full Windsor, forget all this entirely and enjoy your day. Let's look at the above two pictures. The top looks to me like a full Windsor, the bottom a four-in-hand. Maybe if you yanked the top knot it'll get a little tighter, but it's basically going to look like that. In the top picture you look more boyish, short, and nervous. In the bottom picture you look more confident, relaxed, and mature. The danger in wearing morning dress is that you look like you're a little boy in a costume headed to a fancy dress party. Of course you want to look like you're wearing something special, but for an important celebration, not to be an extra in a high school production of My Fair Lady. Some people can avoid this just by having an austere or imposing look to them. Don't take this the wrong way, but you don't seem to me to have that kind of look. The full Windsor looks very "dolled up" and exaggerated - it has the feel of something a man does when he's straining to look important. That's why Jesse at PTO says it's for dicks and jerks. To me, in this case, it looks like you've been dressed by a costume designer or a wedding planner (FWIW the Windsor knot is relatively new and was never worn by the Duke himself - it was likely used to imitate the full knots that the Duke got by wearing ties with thick interlining). Styleforum member Orgetorix has physical features not unlike yours, and a morning coat with generous lapels. His clothes fit great, and of course these are professional photos rather than phone snaps, but he looks fantastic in these photos, and the four-in-hand knot, a dimple below it, and the tie pin below that add to the ease with which he carries off the whole thing: http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?64567-Vintage-Morning-Dress
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  10. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Well-Known Member

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    I certainly see the argument, however, both knots are loose half Windsor. The top one is tied exceptionally loosely, packing a great deal of air, and into the wide part of the front half of the tie. It would, at most, be half tgat size if I had tied it as I normally do. I should also mention that the shirt in those photos is a standard spread, while mine is a semi full spread. I almost never Tue four in hands, but rather the Prince Albert knot with tie and shirt combos that would normally call for a four in hand.

    From my perspective, the primary difference is the shape of the knot, not the size. The Windsor is shorter and wider, while the four in hand is narrower and, relatively, longer. Half Windsor and four in hands can, with practice, be tied in the same range of sizes. When a knot is too narrow on a full or semi spread collar, any shift during the course of the day threatens too expose the band of the collar, and even the top button. Sportscasters are frequently dressed in this improper way up here on TSN and Rogers Sportsnet. It makes them look like what they are -- jock who have had nice, but OTR clothes tossed on them in an attempt at sophistication. Exposing the neck band destroys the visual continuity of a formal ensemble, and makes one wonder if the man can properly tie and position his knot at all. The shorter knit will also increase, ever so slightly, the height of visible shirt, addimg an extra cm or two of height. I am 5'7" and my best man is 6'1" - I could really use that half inch, even if only I can see it :p
     
  11. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    I think the more vertical lines of the FiH actually make you look taller rather than shorter. If you want a knot that's shorter, get a tie with less width.
     
  12. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Well-Known Member

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    I don't particularly think so, but it is a matter of opinion and of taste. That does not address the issue of the collar width, though. A semi spread really needs, at minimum, a half Windsor.
     
  13. MrDaniels

    MrDaniels Well-Known Member

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    Some people could have Throat Cancer and be told that the only sure cure would be wearing a Windsor Knot. And they would choose to die rather than use one...even with a wide, spread collar.
     
  14. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Well-Known Member

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    This gave me a satisfying chuckle.
     
  15. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    No it just needs a thick enough tie. Most of the posters on here, as well as many if not most of the well regarded dressers of the last 100 years, wear spread or semi-spread collars and FiH knots.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  16. MrDaniels

    MrDaniels Well-Known Member

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    Wow ImTheGRoom...I had no idea that you invented the notion of wearing a Windsor Knot with a spread collar! Are you rich from it? :satisfied:
     
  17. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    Anyway, my main point is that the knot looks better in the second of the two photos that I quoted. If you can achieve that second look with a Windsor, so be it. But avoid the look of that first one. It sounds like you agree and that knot was just abnormally tied for the picture.
     
  18. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Well-Known Member

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    To a large extent, this one truly is a matter of taste. But not always - I will leave the dear reader with these photos, starting with Daniel Craig wearing each of the two knots in question quite smartly, and well suited to the respective collars, and, to a lesser extent, jackets, and followed by quite a few striking Windsors or halves, and some royal follies of the four in hand. Most specficially, Remington Steele (I think it's from that show anyway, based on the vintage) couldn't wear a wider tie with that ensemble, but also needs more knot. A Prince Albert could do it, but a half Windsor would also fit the bill nicely. HRH Prince Charles in morning dress, quite similar to mine, including a slip like I am having made, wears a half Windsor where clearly a full Windsor was required. So it is a matter both of context, and of personal preference.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  19. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    I guess we'll just have to disagree as to some of those pictures, but as a technical point, tie thickness and tie width have different effects on the knot. You get a wider knot by having a thicker tie, not a wider one. A wider tie just gives you a taller knot.
     
  20. bhoves

    bhoves Member

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    Hey guys, I've posted in this thread a while back glad to see it's still going strong. On to my question; all along I have been wanting to wear a 3 piece suit for my wedding, and I still do. However, what I wanted for the waistcoat is now being questioned. I was originally thinking the standard single breasted waistcoat. But after seeing a few double breasted waistcoats that I really liked e.g.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I have started to lean towards them. I don't want to go full morning suit style, but, what are your thoughts on the double breasted waistcoat?

    just for arguments sake, this is what I was using as my muse for colour the single breasted 3 piece:

    [​IMG]
     

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