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Of Macclesfield ties & fudge welts

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by AlanC, Mar 14, 2005.

  1. fkl118

    fkl118 Well-Known Member

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    Here's some pics of the fudge welt: [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. alebrady

    alebrady Well-Known Member

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    old thread, i know - but i was wondering...does a spitalsfield tie traditionally only have one type of geometric pattern on it? for instance, i have seen ties that have sort of mixed patterns (maybe alternating dot and a square in rows) on a tie. are the spitalsfield simpler than this type of more 'intricate' design?

    also, forgive the ignorance but do woven ties need to have at least a very subtle 'texture' to it. for instance, are the sateen solid type ties i see woven?

    tia
     
  3. sammy

    sammy Well-Known Member

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    The London Lounge's home page has a photo of Gary Cooper wearing a Macclesfield tie: http://thelondonlounge.net/

    BTW, I've been looking for one but with no luck. Where is a good source for Macclesfield ties, especially the black n white kind?
     
  4. Roger

    Roger Well-Known Member

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    The London Lounge's home page has a photo of Gary Cooper wearing a Macclesfield tie: http://thelondonlounge.net/

    BTW, I've been looking for one but with no luck. Where is a good source for Macclesfield ties, especially the black n white kind?

    Since the London Lounge Club Tie (made by Charvet) was, I believe, inspired by that one worn by Gary Cooper in the picture, you might check into this tie (in black and white or black and light gray) on the London Lounge.
     
  5. tattersall

    tattersall Well-Known Member

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    Since the London Lounge Club Tie (made by Charvet) was, I believe, inspired by that one worn by Gary Cooper in the picture, you might check into this tie (in black and white or black and light gray) on the London Lounge.

    I have this tie and it's even better looking in person.
     
  6. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    old thread, i know - but i was wondering...does a spitalsfield tie traditionally only have one type of geometric pattern on it? for instance, i have seen ties that have sort of mixed patterns (maybe alternating dot and a square in rows) on a tie. are the spitalsfield simpler than this type of more 'intricate' design?
    The difference between a Spitalsfield and a Macclesfield, aside from point of origin, is that Spitalsfield patterns are typically bigger in scale. Yes, the complexity you describe is quite common. Intricacy is a hallmark of both, however, but I suppose it is safe to say that with Spitalsfields, the larger scale allows for more variation and thus more complexity.

    BTW, note well that the geographic distinctions are these days pretty meaningless, as weavers all over the world weave both types of patterns and have for decades.

    Well, look, all ties are woven, in that the silk that they are made from is woven. The distinction is whether there is a pattern woven into the silk or not. Patterns can either be woven into the silk or printed onto it after the weaving (or be completely absent, for that matter). Certain silk twills have patterns woven into them but a fairly smooth texture. I think a true Macclesfield will always have some "surface interest" and not be smooth.
     
  7. alebrady

    alebrady Well-Known Member

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    The difference between a Spitalsfield and a Macclesfield, aside from point of origin, is that Spitalsfield patterns are typically bigger in scale. Yes, the complexity you describe is quite common. Intricacy is a hallmark of both, however, but I suppose it is safe to say that with Spitalsfields, the larger scale allows for more variation and thus more complexity.

    BTW, note well that the geographic distinctions are these days pretty meaningless, as weavers all over the world weave both types of patterns and have for decades.


    Well, look, all ties are woven, in that the silk that they are made from is woven. The distinction is whether there is a pattern woven into the silk or not. Patterns can either be woven into the silk or printed onto it after the weaving (or be completely absent, for that matter). Certain silk twills have patterns woven into them but a fairly smooth texture. I think a true Macclesfield will always have some "surface interest" and not be smooth.



    Manton - thanks for clearing that up for me!

    was also wondering, a lot of the ties that i seem to see in stores are either prints or very 'complex' or busy looking patterns. where is everyone getting their classically beautiful macclesfield or spatsfield ties - any preferred brands or retailers with a good/wide selection?
     
  8. alebrady

    alebrady Well-Known Member

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    I think a true Macclesfield will always have some "surface interest" and not be smooth.

    manton, sorry but would you say that a true spatsfield would also have some sort of surface texture (albeit with the larger pattern) and not be smooth either?
     
  9. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    The patters or types of patterns that Macclesfield, and later Spitalsfield, made famous have become international standards in neckwear. Personally, I like the interpretations that the Italian company Nicky comes up with. They do a lot of wovens with nice surface interest, but colors and patterns that are far afield of what a dyed-in-the-wool Englishman would consider a proper Macclesfield. But then we can't always wear black and silver checks, can we?

    Yes, a Spitalsfield should have some surface interest.
     
  10. hmhill

    hmhill Active Member

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    Although I'm not sure I believe these are Macclesfields. I know the second one from the left is because the label says All Silk English Macclesfield[​IMG]

    Left to Right: Allen Solly; Neiman Marcus; Polo: Bowring Arundel & Co.; Bowring Arundel & Co.


    [​IMG]

    Max
     
  11. alebrady

    alebrady Well-Known Member

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    Although I'm not sure I believe these are Macclesfields. I know the second one from the left is because the label says All Silk English Macclesfield[​IMG]

    Left to Right: Allen Solly; Neiman Marcus; Polo: Bowring Arundel & Co.; Bowring Arundel & Co.


    [​IMG]

    Max


    i guess if i understand this style correctly, all of them but the plaid could be?[​IMG]

    incidentally, i just purchased that same polo plaid this past weekend. what color shirt and jacket (suit) do you wear it with?
     
  12. hmhill

    hmhill Active Member

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    Although it varies sometimes, I tend to keep the colors to gray and white. I usually wear a charcoal grey pinstripe suit with a white shirt. To my eye the other colors do not work as well, but generally I prefer another pattern, so that is why I go with the pinstripe suit.

    Max
     
  13. alebrady

    alebrady Well-Known Member

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    Although it varies sometimes, I tend to keep the colors to gray and white. I usually wear a charcoal grey pinstripe suit with a white shirt. To my eye the other colors do not work as well, but generally I prefer another pattern, so that is why I go with the pinstripe suit.

    Max



    max - interesting, i have found the most useful combination also to be with a white shirt/ dark charcoal...although i may try it sometime with a very pale blue shirt. i wonder if it would work well with a pink shirt..
     
  14. hmhill

    hmhill Active Member

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    max - interesting, i have found the most useful combination also to be with a white shirt/ dark charcoal...although i may try it sometime with a very pale blue shirt. i wonder if it would work well with a pink shirt..

    I happen to have a pink shirt handy. The shirt is a pink Brooks Brothers OCBD.

    http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../dscn07992.jpg

    I don't think the pink photographed well.

    Max
     
  15. alebrady

    alebrady Well-Known Member

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  16. romafan

    romafan Well-Known Member

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    Macclesfield is a parish in the north of England where French Hugenot weavers settled after Louis XIV revoked the Edit of Nantes and kicked them out of France. *It has been a center of woven silk manufacture for many years.

    When refering to ties, "Macclesfield" refers first to a tie made from silk woven in that parish. *It has also come to mean any similiarly woven silk, no matter where it is made. *Traditioanally, Macclesfield silk is made in tight woven patterns, with relatively small designs. *The most common Macclesfields are indeed black and white or black and silver, but that's not a requirement. *They are perhaps the most common because in England and a lot of Europe these are (or used to be) considered the "correct" wedding tie for wear with a morning suit (turn down collar shirt only) or dark lounge suit. *This practice of having all groomsmen dress identically is a fairly recent American invention. *So a well-dressed Englishman or European used to have a few such ties for weddings, christenings, and other "happy" formal occasions.

    There is another parish called Spitalsfield, which is in East London, where they make (or used to make) a similar kind of woven silk. *Traditionally, a Spitalsfield design has a larger scale than a Macclesfield.


    Spitalsfields is (or at least it used to be) the site of London's largest green market. We took a walk through thirty years ago and the area was quite destitute - very Dickensesque. I beleive it was a ghetto in the 18th century for Huguenot weavers...
     
  17. texas_jack

    texas_jack Well-Known Member

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    after reading this thread I have to assume that i have a tie from Macclesfield that is not a "Macclesfield". It feels like a crepe type weave. They are a normal width but kind of short. Any guess as to the era?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Well-Known Member

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    Texas Jack, Your tie is a Macclesfield without a doubt. The meaning of Macclesfield ties that is actually used in Macclesfield and that is used by many if not most tie makers refers to silks made in Macclesfield. This was confirmed to me by a director of Adamley/David Evans a few years ago who are one of the few remaining silk printers in Macclesfield. I am not sure why some Americans started thinking of Macclesfields as woven fabrics. For accurate dating of your tie you can ask one of the silk museums in Macclesfield - I think that there are two. The label refers to it being woven and printed in Macclesfield which will help with the dating.
     

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