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Nigel Cabourn

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Fuuma, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. NickJohannessen

    NickJohannessen Well-Known Member

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    Let's not have all that many illusions about who has sold out. I think Nigel lost his major stake in his company after a couple of bankrupcies many years back. The guys in Japan that own the "Nigel Cabourn Mainline" and the six shops own a big part of the company now.

    As far as I can tell from a cursory search, Nigel owns 40% and a mysterious Abahouse owns the rest. So I have little doubt that all the price hiking, new brands, collaborations, women's line (which I actually like) and so forth is a quite open attempt at cashing in.

    The problem I see though is that while we obviously have plenty of regard and knowledge for the Cabourn stuff, most people that have a less extreme interest in clothes will place no value at all on the Cabourn name on their gear, so what Fred Perry, Carrimor etc see in the collaborations beats me.
     
  2. 1989thenumber

    1989thenumber Well-Known Member

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    Accusing someone who runs or owns a business of "selling out" is a bit ridiculous. My complaint is about trading on your provenance and Britishness but then producing in China. If you're low end and mass market, no one gives a fuck. But you're on shaky ground at that price point, while also hawking to an extremely well-informed, savvy audience.
     
  3. evel

    evel Active Member

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    haha

    It is a shame i think more transparency around what the lybro collab is would of helped, indeed the 'england' tag is unwarrented imo. Not so long ago he was critical of visvim for using chinese production.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. ManofKent

    ManofKent Well-Known Member

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    Transparency is the key. Stick an article on the website showing the factory - some of the Hong Kong production units are small-scale workshops with highly trained staff. Some British factories are little better than sweat shops... Stick a label on it saying designed in England, made in so and so factory, Hong Kong. Labour costs in Hong Kong aren't that much cheaper than the UK these days, and by the time you add shipping I suspect the costs for British sales aren't that much cheaper (although obviously cheaper for Asian sales). Pretending all your production is carried out in the UK is a dubious issue, having stuff made abroad isn't a problem for me.
     
  5. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Well-Known Member

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    Re: Lybro

    Lybro to me in no way looks any worse than MHL when it comes to fabrication and quality. I've not handled any Lybro yet and I've only handled so much MHL, but the latter didn't strike me as anything special when it came to fabrications or quality so as to think that Lybro is somehow worse. On top of that the price point is the same. So unless MHL is made in the UK or somewhere else the cost of labor is more expensive than China then I'd say Lybro warrants the price in terms of comparison. If you're going to compare it to a brand, and this is if MHL isn't made in England, then Engineered Garments would be a better comparison. Granted I think EG is overrated. Still looking at an EG Workaday piece it looks similar to Lybro and is made in the States while being priced notably cheaper.

    With regards to where it's made, I think I read on this forum that it was made in the same factory that some of the Visvim stuff is made in. I don't think they're trying to pull the wool over anyone eyes when it comes to the label though. I only went back and looked at a SS14 Authentic jacket I have, but it too says "Nigel Cabourn England" on it. In fact it's the same tag, just minus the "Authentic" bit. On top of that it has a separate tag that says "Made in England." So the "Nigel Cabourn England" tag is for me simply the tag. What I will say though is that were it my brand I would make it well known it was coming from Nigel Cabourn, but I wouldn't put "in collaboration with" or anything of that sort on the garment. I'd simply brand it as Lybro and focus on that. In fact is it technically even a collaboration to begin with? Either way the Lybro line considering what seems to me to be the brands heritage makes a ton of sense for them from a business perspective. It adds to the overall portfolio on top of there clearly being a market for such a line with the likes of MHL and Engineered Garments out there.

    I'm sure we could go on for days about the labor in various countries. The general narrative tends to be stereotypical for each country when in truth it varies from factory to factory and it isn't just the same in each country. To @ManofKent 's point, you can find poor conditions in a factory in the US just as you can in a factory in China. That's not even considering further context as regards the labor issue.

    @Grove has an interesting point though. Lybro being a British workwear brand that is celebrated as such is made in China. Not sure the history of the brand in terms of where it was made in the past, which to be put into context likely had a different landscape as regards labor in the clothing industry, but it's interesting regardless.

    I nearly forgot to mention pricing as well. Unless you're buying Cabourn in any guise at full retail, then pricing shouldn't be an issue. When the sales hit the prices are more than fair when you compare them to what else sells at the price range. In fact if you want to complain about a brand and their pricing then look no further than RRL.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2015
  6. jacksonn

    jacksonn Well-Known Member

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    The issues with waiting for the sales are a) you might not be able to get the style and size you want; b) you're letting the whole season go buy without wearing the item; c) the psychology of the sale scenario can pressure you into buying an item you don't really want. I think if the general culture with Cabourn followers is to now wait for the sales, that says there's something wrong with the pricing. You shouldn't have to feel a bit of a mug for buying an item you love at retail.
     
  7. ike_hiking_boots

    ike_hiking_boots Well-Known Member

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    The majority of MHL is made in Portugal, but some of it is made in England, much of the outwear is made in England, the wool jackets for example.
     
  8. NickJohannessen

    NickJohannessen Well-Known Member

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    I find it quite strange to see that items marked on the website as Lybro appear to have not only England on the label, but actually have the same labels as the regular Autentic line. Take this jacket as an example (and not the only one either):

    http://www.cabourn.com/men/new-arrivals/work-shirt-army

    Wasn't the thing about Authentic that it was made in Britain? Will all become clear?

    I guess Lybro is only the start, as the real "cheap diffusion line" is supposedly "The Army Gym" range, though there has been no mention of that for a while.
     
  9. Eric Gill Sans

    Eric Gill Sans Well-Known Member

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    Some interesting points raised about the Lybro range

    I had a quick look at it a couple of weeks ago and it certainly looked the part - thick strong cotton. Well stitched with nice details at a sensible price point

    Richard in the shop mentioned Lybro a good few months ago to me and explained straight away that it was going to be very Cabourn but at a lower price point as manufacture will be done in the Far East

    Don't forget some shirting in the Authentic range was made in Portugal and clearly said 'made in the EU' and didn't have the 'made in England' or 'made in Scotland' tags as did most of the Authentic range

    At least NC does manufacture in Britain unlike Burberry, Aquascutum, Jack Wills, Paul Smith, all of who play on their Britishness unashamedly while profitizing greatly from manufacturing in low labour cost, high volume factory environments
     
  10. Eric Gill Sans

    Eric Gill Sans Well-Known Member

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    Talking of clothing sweat shops

    [​IMG]


    Picture taken of Lybro machinists in their Liverpool factory in 1959
     
  11. Eric Gill Sans

    Eric Gill Sans Well-Known Member

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    Some great vintage adverts as heritage

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Eric Gill Sans

    Eric Gill Sans Well-Known Member

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    Being a Liverpool company Libro was modelled by The Beatles

    [​IMG]

    The Beatles wearing Lybro jeans!!!??

    [​IMG]
     
  13. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Well-Known Member

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    Trust me when I tell you that I'm as interested in getting something on sale as much as anyone else. Still with regards to your points:

    a) That's the risk you take by waiting for something to go on sale.
    b) That's what I do pretty much every SS and for most of AW. Still I enjoy wearing them the following season.
    c) I personally don't feel pressured and if I did that'd be on me.

    None of that is really Cabourn's (the brand's) fault or problem though. If I miss out on something I miss out on something. I wish they'd have taken deeper marks on a couple of AW items last year, but understand them not doing it. Of course the flip side is that if something doesn't sell and they're stuck with the inventory then they're missing out. Of course there's the idea you're protecting the brand in doing so.

    From what I can tell Cabourn fans almost all wait for the sales. I'm sure they sell some pieces every season at full retail, but everyone I know gets some sort of discount as a result of the sales. In fact I've never known a time where people aren't waiting for the sales.

    I wouldn't feel like a mug for buying an item at full retail. I'd probably feel more of a mug buying at deep discount as I do. Anyway, I'm not trying to defend the brand here. I just think that the prices are generally fair considering what a lot of the other brands are charging. Again, just look at RRL. Cabourn pricing on styles that in general don't come close in terms of quality not to mention where it's made.

    Good to know. Are the styles that are made in England the Margaret Howell line though, or is it MHL as well?

    Some of the items, yes. That's interesting. On the other hand that shirt jacket you linked in the navy color has the Lybro tag. I get the feeling that maybe they intended a style or two for the Authentic range but ended up putting them in the Lybro range instead? Not sure. Good spot though.

    I still think the Army Gym line would just be more of a sweatshirt/workout type range.
     
  14. Werder

    Werder Active Member

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    PM if anyone is interested in a Navy Mallory jacket( Harris Tweed) in size 52.
     
  15. ike_hiking_boots

    ike_hiking_boots Well-Known Member

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    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/celebrate-british-clothing-says-tv-s-helen-skelton-a3086431.html

    Celebrate British clothing, says TV’s Helen Skelton

    Presenter Helen Skelton today said the nation should be “proud” of its British-made clothing.

    Speaking at the launch of a new range from British heritage designer Nigel Cabourn, the former Blue Peter presenter said: “We’ve got skills, we’ve got designers and we’ve got good quality. The fact we are making and designing something here in Britain — why shouldn’t we be proud of it?”

    Figures show around 90 per cent of the clothes we wear come from abroad, but designers have seen a growing demand for UK-made clothing.

    Skelton, 32, is a brand ambassador for outdoor clothing manufacturer Karrimor, who have linked with Cabourn — all of whose clothing is made in the UK — for the range.

    She added: “[Cabourn’s collection] is a practical outdoor range and we need that. It’s very patriotic, much like me.”

    Cabourn said: “People like [heritage brands] because they’ve got that reputation for history and longevity.

    “Nearly every collaboration I do is all made in England. This is what it’s all about. There’s not much point in somebody like me existing unless I keep to my roots.”


    Well he does use the words "Nearly" - apart from that the guys a comedian.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
  16. conak

    conak Well-Known Member

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    "Practical outdoor clothing"...I think 'functional' is the better term. I definitely think they serve the purpose of outdoors clothing, but at the price range he sells, they move outside of the term 'practical'.
     
  17. Grintricha

    Grintricha Well-Known Member

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    Having foolishly bought a couple of karrimor running bits in the past you won't get me anywhere near old sports direct Cabourn
     
  18. NickJohannessen

    NickJohannessen Well-Known Member

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    That is a quite brilliant link, considering the launch Lybro (and the maybe maybe Army Gym) brand :)

    "Speaking at the launch of a new range from British heritage designer Nigel Cabourn, the former Blue Peter presenter said: “We’ve got skills, we’ve got designers and we’ve got good quality. The fact we are making and designing something here in Britain — why shouldn’t we be proud of it?”

    I wonder if she was aware of the situation?
     
  19. Emixam

    Emixam Well-Known Member

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    exactly, here is what he said ' "Visvim is sort of niche, but then he makes it all in China and charges the earth for it. I’m sorry but I don’t see how you can charge £1,000 for a pair of shoes made in China." (which is wrong : only shoes and back packs are made in China and Japan retail for shoes is on average under 500gbp)
     
  20. Eric Gill Sans

    Eric Gill Sans Well-Known Member

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    I'm listening to a Soho Music Radio show on Mixcloud with an interview with Nigel

    I've tried to copy and paste the URL here but it's not working so I'll try another link and pop back

    If anyone knows how to do it, please post
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015

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