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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by medtech_expat, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    Look at the photos again - how much STHTSHN do you think is in the NSM jacket?

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  2. poorsod

    poorsod Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't Luca make his coats from the Milan office?
     
  3. RDiaz

    RDiaz Well-Known Member

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    I've said it before and will say it again - from the pics, it looks like the reason the shoulder line curves upward has nothing to do with wadding nor padding, but with how the jacket follows your actual shoulder line, and how the shoulder seam is shaped. If wadding was to blame you would see the upwards curve on the hanger too, but you don't. I get that sort of curve when my acromion is pushing on the jacket's front more than it should.
     
  4. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    The upswing in the curvature is either caused by the way the jacket is cut, or by the presence of excess wadding. You've reported that, in your case, there is wadding there. Well, the answer then is simply: too much.
     
  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but he does have some things worked on in Naples.


    I was going with the wadding theory on the basis of Cantabrigian's report.

    However, I think the problem in most cases is more likely that the armhole circumference is cut too large and high. That is why others report feeling empty space under the upswing. Nobody's natural shoulder looks like that, short of some strange medical condition.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  6. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    As Marley said to Scrooge, why do you doubt the evidence of your own eyes?

    Look at the closeups of the sleevehead. How could you possibly have less STHTSHN?
     
  7. Slickman

    Slickman Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, who the hell cares, the points have been made on both sides, the shoulder expression is not a life and death matter, so it curves up a bit, so it doesn't. I think people are aware of the "issue"
    Posting new pics of fits, nsm, rubi or anyone's work, would be more beneficial. I doubt any tailor/house in naples will take a person's explanation of why a problem exists into account. From their pov, the customer doesnt know enough to say anything of meaning, even if they do. Am I wrong to believe this?
     
  8. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    First of all, what you were highlighting in your original post isn't the wadding. That is the combined seam allowance of the jacket body and sleeve, folded over to the jacket side. Hence, "spalla camicia." Wadding is a semicircular piece of cloth that lies on top of the shoulder, at the scye.

    Second, my eyes see plenty well. You've simply confused the evidence. Ultimately, there should not be that upswing at the shoulder line's ends. It is not due to your own shoulder shape--your shoulders don't curve upward at the tips do they? Didn't think so. You aren't a gargoyle. Hence, we know the jacket itself is structured in such a way as to create the upswing. So, we also know it could be cut or made differently as to not create it. That is, unless, gravity works the other way around over your shoulder ends.

    If it is wadding that contributes to the upswing, then use less of it. If the jacket is cut too large around and above the armhole (which, I suspect, is the true problem), then the tailor needs to be more astute with his tailoring.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  9. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    About that, you are wrong.

    There is more there than three layers of cloth.
     
  10. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because the wadding is included in it. But it is not just the wadding.
     
  11. RDiaz

    RDiaz Well-Known Member

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    There should be the seam allowances, the wadding and probably the chest canvas there; you would find that on most coats. So yep, more than three layers. But it does look like the bump is created by the seam allowances - or is there an extra piece of wadding with that particular shape too?

    I'm actually asking out of curiosity and pure interest, not stating anything - it's you who owns the jacket after all, and I haven't seen NSM stuff in real life.

    Someone should send JefferyD a NSM jacket. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  12. dopey

    dopey Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone discussed this issue with NSM yet?
    Foo: You should come to their next NY visit and maybe bring one of the SF reporters to do a story.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. chogall

    chogall Well-Known Member

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    Much more interested in reading expert opinions instead of hobbyist conjectures.

    I would but I am not able to be be as articulate as Foo.

    Would be very interested to read a story on Foo vs. NSM STHTSHN shoulders.
     
  14. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but it's kind of moot. That raised impression, which follows the circumference of the scye, is not what I mean when I harp on about the problem with the shoulder line. If you look at any jacket with shirt-set sleeves under the right lighting, you will see such a raised impression. Moreover, it is not causing the problem. The inversion of the shoulder line's curvature often starts well before it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to get people to see there even is an issue first.


    I'm not trying to play expert. I've said again and again, I'm only guessing at what the cause could be.

    However, you don't need to be a tailoring expert to see that something is wonky about these shoulders. Maybe that takes expertise looking at these things, but I look at these things a lot. Anyway, I think an astute eye is really all you need.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  16. chogall

    chogall Well-Known Member

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    You are right, there's something interesting and different about those shoulders.

    I am very interested to learn how those effects are created. Or from a more cynical point of view, the (in)deliberate decision in choosing the effect. Without firsthand experience, any one of us can only be doing what you and others have done - guessing.
     
  17. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    About the exact technical explanation for why it's happening, sure.

    But if you are well-acquainted with the different ways shoulder lines are expressed, you can plainly see that something is wrong here. It is not a deliberate choice. Consider that both convex (natural) and concave (pagoda) shoulders have been discussed ad nauseam, and it's not really a mystery how you get the shoulder line to curve this way or that.

    Also, I find it highly implausible that NSM decided that, as part of their campaign to sell Neapolitan bespoke clothing to foreigners, they decided to invent a new style of shoulder that is highly irregular (to put it mildly) for a Neapolitan jacket. Where is the sense in that? Not only is it not "Neapolitan" in any meaningful way, but it also isn't established as a style of shoulder anywhere else.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  18. chogall

    chogall Well-Known Member

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    I know you are based in NYC but still want to offer you to join me in my next meeting w/ NSM @ SF. Your astute observations and articulation will serve this thread well, beyond the current dead horse beating binge.
     
  19. TheWraith

    TheWraith Well-Known Member

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    JeffreyD IS an expert.
     
  20. teddieriley

    teddieriley Well-Known Member

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    Wait, you smell that?
    

    Why, just because he makes suits for a living? That does not make him an expert. He needs to spend more time on the Interwebz posting and looking at pictures to be classified as any sort of expert. Pfffttt.
     
    3 people like this.

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