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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by medtech_expat, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. sprout2

    sprout2 Well-Known Member

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    That is a nice cloth to be sure. Although something about it reminds me of Ben Silver.
     
  2. bboysdontcryy

    bboysdontcryy Well-Known Member

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    Choice of cloth aside, this might be Rubinacci's style, but I feel those lapels are so wide they're swallowing his frame up. But it's indeed hard to tell without the coat buttoned and the shoulders showing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  3. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    For that coat, zero days in Naples and one fitting before it was finished - I met Mariano in NY
     
  4. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    I've killed people for less than that.
     
    2 people like this.
  5. Stugotes

    Stugotes Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of this before. Would really like to hear more opinions on the matter.
     
  6. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    So after looking carefully, I'm 99% certain I've figured out what causes the ski jump at the end of the shoulder line.

    I was wrong on the seam allowance guess (and, in retrospect, that seems like a pretty dumb supposition)

    There is literally no padding in the shoulder until you get to that point. So what Jeffrey posted is completely absent in this case. That is, however, until you get to the shoulder seam. Sewed into that seam is a semicircle of something - padding, wadding, something esle. I'd surmise that padding is to help the sleeve fall gradually away from the shoulder rather than simply dropping off.

    This also explains why the trap bump is so pronounced. Other soft shoulders have some sort of padding so that bump is a little smoother but NSM has none of that.

    So this isn't a mistake and is a consequence of something I like - i.e. the incredible softness / lightness of their jackets.

    I don't, however, like the look of the shoulder ski jump. I still expect that it will come down a bit with time, though never entirely.

    In the end it seems to be a choice between more padding in the rest of the shoulder and this look.
     
  7. CaymanS

    CaymanS Well-Known Member

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    Very astute observations.

    My alterations tailor told me that when Oxxford was a smaller outfit, every single one of their tailors was A+/top notch, but that as time went on and they expanded to being carried at every NM/Saks/etc. in the country, they had to fill their workrooms with tailors who didn't have the same level of training and the quality declined.

    LH is seeing meteoric growth right now (even Lapo has converted, which is telling, because just a couple years ago, he was Luca's style hero.)

    What will be interesting to see is if they can keep growing and maintain their storied level of consistency.
     
  8. poorsod

    poorsod Well-Known Member

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    That is my assessment as well. I also find that for heavier fabric, such as the lesser 16, the wadding is more weighed down and gives a rounder shoulder appearance.
     
  9. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that's it. My Rubinacci jackets are fully unpadded in the shoulder except for that same semi-circular piece of wadding where the shoulder meets the sleevehead. The Solito jacket's I've seen are the same. I think the issue is with how NSM has cut and shaped the pattern of the jacket.

    Think about it this way. If the wadding is truly creating the "ski jump," then the jacket wasn't cut right to accommodate it. That is a mistake. Evidently, other tailors are able to incorporate such wadding without the same ugly effect.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
  10. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    What youre' saying is pretty self-evidently impossible. And I suspect that your misception is borne of confusing very lightly padded / wadded at the end of the shoulder with zero shoulder padding until the sleevehead.

    How would you go about cutting a shoulder to accomodate nothing then something without some transition? The shoulder of the coat has to rest on your shoulder - or else it will fall down in odd dimples. When there is suddenly something between your shoulder and the jacket shoulder, there will - necessarily - be a bump.

    Solito definitely uses some wadding before the sleevehead. It's very soft so you don't really feel it / notice.
     
  11. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, both Solito and Rubinacci use the same semi-circular wadding before the sleevehead that you describe you in your NSM jacket. Yet, only NSM jackets seem to consistently suffer from the "ski jump" effect. Thus, it is not the wadding itself that is to blame. Otherwise, we would see the same issue on the non-NSM jackets mentioned. I'm not sure how much more minutely I can spell that out.

    The use of wadding (how much of it, how it is shaped, where it is placed, etc.), combined with how the jacket shoulder is cut will naturally effect the shape of the shoulder. If there is too much wadding, placed improperly, I can easily imagine the shoulder curvature inverting. Perhaps NSM inserts it too far short of the sleevehead, for example. Maybe it is a failure to adjust to each client. The ultimate point is that, looking at other soft shouldered, unpadded shoulders with similar wadding, it shouldn't be necessary to wait for the "ski jump" to settle down. Telling yourself NSM implemented such an odd and unnecessary inconvenience on purpose doesn't actually speak well of NSM at all. As a client, I'd much rather believe it is a mistake--then, they might fix it.
     
  12. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    It's not the same wadding.

    They use something in addition to what NSM does.
     
  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Not on my Rubinacci jackets, and not in the Solito jackets I've inspected. Luigi's own, for example. That little piece of semi-circular wadding is all there usually is.

    At any rate, no small amount of wadding elsewhere is going to mitigate an inversion of the shoulder line, if there is in fact so much semi-circular wadding near the sleavehead to cause the jacket to swoop upward from your shoulder. To undo the inversion, you'd need at least an even amount of padding throughout the whole shoulder of the jacket. That clearly is not present on either Solito or Rubinacci examples.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  14. coolpapa

    coolpapa Well-Known Member

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    I don't think LH has experienced meteoric growth, in fact, I think Mariano (or maybe it was Luca) have stated publicly that they're limited to about 1000 suits a year, or something like that.
     
  15. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Well-Known Member

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    Aren't they taking out full-page magazine ads? Odd expenditure for a firm limited to 1,000 suits a year.
     
  16. whnay.

    whnay. Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I don't think growth is the issue, its finding enough tailors that can keep up with the quality.
     
  17. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    They sell a lot of other stuff.
     
  18. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    Also even if quantity is fixed, there is another mechanism through which increased demand can increase a firm's profits...
     
  19. coolpapa

    coolpapa Well-Known Member

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    I think the growth likely will come from the RTW stuff they sell and they've been engaging in partnerships with retailers in various forms over the years to do that. I could be totally wrong about all this, but I've talked to Mariano about it a few times and never got the impression there was a grand plan to really increase their bespoke output in a significant way.
     
  20. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    This is another (and incidentally less accurate) way of describing what i tried to explain above.

    The padding / wadding that makes the sleeve fall properly, on NSM, starts only a millimetre or so in from the seam. Around there is where the acromion begins. The slope of the shoulder levels out after the deltoid and the inverts slightly at the acromion. Extending the sleevehead padding ever so slightly smooths that transition. NSM does not extend the padding that way.

    The other thing that contributes to the NSM shoulder is - and this is just a guess - that they use pre-formed padding right at the sleevehead and this takes more time to settle than softer wadding.

    So this effect on the shoulder is the result of a deliberate lack of extra material until right before the sleevehead. I think I prefer the Rubinacci / Solito / everyone but NSM approach, at least in most instances.

    By being the unpadded-est* their coats have - necessarily I'd add - this effect at the shoulder. I don't think a slight increase in lightness over London House / Solito / everybody else in Naples is particularly important. But it is a difference and not a simple oversight.




    *Though I think this discussion would be easier if we banished mention of 'unpadded' (1) because its simply not true in the case of any tailored garment and (2) because it has become, to some extent, shorthand for quality. Given 2, people are cagey about admitting the existence of any padding whatsoever and that just jumbles things further.
     

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