1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Modern greeks uglier than ancient greeks?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Pantisocrat, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Pantisocrat

    Pantisocrat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Location:
    États-Unis
    As a learned man, I visit a lot of museums, which inevitably contain a Greek collection of nude statutes among other notable collections. The sculptures always project life size figures of great beauty. However, many Greeks I meet in person are not as attractive. Why?
     
  2. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,625
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2007
  3. mm84321

    mm84321 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,040
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    It's all that processed gyro meat they eat.
     
  4. fwiffo

    fwiffo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,468
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Location:
    Toronto
    Hellenic art always portrays the ideal. If you want people who sculpted, painted and crafted life in a practical and realistic manner, you should look at Roman artwork. Their busts feature people who have wrinkles, baldness and other physical faults - which I would assume look closer to modern day Italian people.
     
  5. tagutcow

    tagutcow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,618
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Location:
    Greensboro NC
    Hellenic art always portrays the ideal. If you want people who sculpted, painted and crafted life in a practical and realistic manner, you should look at Roman artwork. Their busts feature people who have wrinkles, baldness and other physical faults - which I would assume look closer to modern day Italian people.

    Wasn't that an effect of Christianization on Rome, that artwork could depict humans as weak and frail rather than heroic and idealized?
     
  6. Archivist

    Archivist Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    688
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Wasn't that an effect of Christianization on Rome, that artwork could depict humans as weak and frail rather than heroic and idealized?

    Not at all. The realistic aesthetic of the Romans predates the existence of Christianity.
     
  7. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    20,008
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Location:
    New York City / Buenos Aires
    Not at all. The realistic aesthetic of the Romans predates the existence of Christianity.

    This.

    And at least in ancient Athens they were obsessed (especially males) with their bodies, they really took care of them. Also, yes there is an unrealistic 'perfect human' to ancient Greek statues which do not depict real life; see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riace_bronzes
     
  8. dsgNYC

    dsgNYC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    422
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    I saw some incredibly beautiful Greek women when I was in Athens. Yeah, you can find beautiful women in any city and I see a lot everyday in NYC, but they seemed to be different.
     
  9. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    20,008
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Location:
    New York City / Buenos Aires
    I saw some incredibly beautiful Greek women when I was in Athens. Yeah, you can find beautiful women in any city and I see a lot everyday in NYC, but they seemed to be different.

    [​IMG] NYC women.
     
  10. willpower

    willpower Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,414
    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Location:
    West Coast
    I always thought the Pilgrims were hotter than today's Bostonians.
     
  11. Pantisocrat

    Pantisocrat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Location:
    États-Unis
  12. Sander

    Sander Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,893
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Afaik the people living in Greece today are a different ethnicity than the ones 1000 bc.
     
  13. PrimusPilus

    PrimusPilus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    67
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
  14. Kai

    Kai Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,189
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2003
    Afaik the people living in Greece today are a different ethnicity than the ones 1000 bc.

    +1

    Same with pretty much all of the ancient civilizations.
     
  15. JLibourel

    JLibourel Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,602
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Afaik the people living in Greece today are a different ethnicity than the ones 1000 bc.

    This is the old "Fallmerayer Thesis" that was proposed by an Austrian scholar of that name. His argument ran that the "ancient" Greeks had pretty well all perished in the course of the extensive plagues and invasions of late antiquity and the early middle ages and that the modern inhabitants of Greece were mostly descendants of Slavic immigrants with a later admixture of Albanians. This got a lot of notice because it was published in the 1830s at the very time the Greeks were struggling for their freedom from Turkish rule. The Greeks were getting a lot of sympathy at the time because they were the heritors of the glorious civilization of ancient Greece, especially since educated people in Europe and elsewhere were far better educated in the classics than today. I guess the corollary was that it was somehow more acceptable for the Turks to oppress Slavs and Albanians than the heritors of Aeschylus, Phidias and Plato, odd though that may seem to us today.

    In any event, I gather the Fallmerayer Thesis has been pretty well disproved by skeletal and DNA analyses. The modern Greeks are in fact the same people that gave us Thucydides, Socrates, Aristotle and all the gang.

    I suspect, however, there may have been a "beauty drain" on Greece and other areas under Turkish dominion during the days of the Ottoman Empire, when a lot of the prettiest girls of the subject peoples ended up in the harems of Constantinople while many of the likeliest boys were impressed into the fearsome Janissaries.
     
  16. tagutcow

    tagutcow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,618
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Location:
    Greensboro NC
    This is the old "Fallmerayer Thesis" that was proposed by an Austrian scholar of that name. His argument ran that the "ancient" Greeks had pretty well all perished in the course of the extensive plagues and invasions of late antiquity and the early middle ages and that the modern inhabitants of Greece were mostly descendants of Slavic immigrants with a later admixture of Albanians. This got a lot of notice because it was published in the 1830s at the very time the Greeks were struggling for their freedom from Turkish rule. The Greeks were getting a lot of sympathy at the time because they were the heritors of the glorious civilization of ancient Greece, especially since educated people in Europe and elsewhere were far better educated in the classics than today. I guess the corollary was that it was somehow more acceptable for the Turks to oppress Slavs and Albanians than the heritors of Aeschylus, Phidias and Plato, odd though that may seem to us today.

    I love how JLib will accasionally alight onto a thread and dispense actual knowledge. Thank you. Why occasionally did the same, but I haven't seen him round these here parts for many a moon.

    Is there any equivalent theory explaining the brain drain of the Italians? How did the same race give us both Leonardo Da Vinci and "The Situation"?
     
  17. Pantisocrat

    Pantisocrat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Location:
    États-Unis
    I love how JLib will accasionally alight onto a thread and dispense actual knowledge. Thank you. Why occasionally did the same, but I haven't seen him round these here parts for many a moon. Is there any equivalent theory explaining the brain drain of the Italians? How did the same race give us both Leonardo Da Vinci and "The Situation"?
    ^ This is simply not substantiated. Italians have the highest IQ in Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality Hong Kong \t107 \t108 \t27,490 \t60.8 Singapore \t103 \t108 \t23,730 \t60.7 North Korea \t105* \t106* \t1,000 \t38 South Korea \t106 \t106 \t16,960 \t75.4 Japan \t105 \t105 \t27,380 \t71.4 Taiwan \t104 \t105 \t23,400 \t79.4 China \t100 \t105 \t4,520 \t39.7 Italy \t102 \t102 \t26,170 \t78.9 Iceland \t98* \t101 \t29,240 \t80 Mongolia \t98* \t101* \t1,710 \t48.1 Switzerland \t101 \t101 \t31,840 \t82.2 Austria \t102 \t100 \t28,910 \t80.7 Luxembourg \t101* \t100* \t53,230 \t76.4 Netherlands \t102 \t100 \t28,350 \t82.8 Norway \t98 \t100 \t36,690 \t89 United Kingdom \t100 \t100 \t26,580 \t76.7 Germany \t102 \t99 \t26,980 \t78 Belgium \t100 \t99 \t28,130 \t84.1 Canada \t97 \t99 \t28,930 \t77.8 Estonia \t97* \t99 \t11,630 \t64.5 Finland \t97 \t99 \t26,160 \t85.1 New Zealand \t100 \t99 \t20,550 \t76.2 Poland \t99 \t99 \t10,450 \t62.7 Sweden \t101 \t99 \t25,820 \t82.9 Andorra \tN/A \t98* \t19,000 \t58.7 ....etc.
     
  18. Cool The Kid

    Cool The Kid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,897
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    I don't know about this, but I do know Greek women are notorious for having nice juicy bubble butts

    Those damn Moors got em good...

    *EDIT* If Italians have the highest IQs why is Italy broke
     
  19. Pantisocrat

    Pantisocrat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Location:
    États-Unis
    I don't know about this, but I do know Greek women are notorious for having nice juicy bubble butts Those damn Moors got em good... *EDIT* If Italians have the highest IQs why is Italy broke
    It's still one of the richest countries in the world, and is responsible for many SF approved merchandise. To make all those pleated Brioni ties and fast Ferraris take a lot of brain power. It's possible that some of the smarter Italians have left Italy during down times.
     
  20. grundletaint

    grundletaint Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,216
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    they didn't make chisels small enough to accurately capture all the body pubes.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by