1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Mod to Suedehead

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Spirit of 69, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. elwood

    elwood Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    229
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Location:
    south east england
    Mr. Knightley's very interesting post about dressing in the Age of Nudity and the whole topic of shorts, plus cerneabbas' comments about politicians' dressing down seem to be focused in this Daily Telegraph article (tried to link but couldn't make it work, so hope this cut & paste does):

    Get shorty at work, but make sure you have the legs for it

    As temperatures rise, Glenda Cooper asks whether it is ever acceptable for men to wear shorts in the office



    Frankie Morello's short suits, left and right, at Milan fashion week; the Labour MP Ben Bradshaw in cycling shorts, shirt and formal shoes (Getty/James Eisen)

    FOR many red-faced commuters making their way to the office today in near-90 degree heat, there is a pressing question: is it possible for the (male) office worker to keep his cool and his dignity? In short – can he wear shorts?
    With dress codes at many businesses having relaxed over the past decade, and the short suit now part of many women’s office wardrobe, such a suggestion – once unthinkable – no longer seems so outré, as the heatwave is predicted to hit 89.6F (32C) on Wednesday.
    At Milan fashion week this month, designers showcased city shorts. And even the stuffy world of politics is not immune. Last week, the Labour MP Ben Bradshaw turned up in cycling shorts for a reception to bid farewell to David Miliband, the former foreign secretary.
    But Jodi R R Smith, president of the US etiquette consultants Mannersmith, urges caution. “Let’s be honest, very few men have the right legs for the office,” she observes. But for those who feel they do, she adds: “First, you must know your office environment. If it’s formal or very conservative, then no. If it is more casual then I would go as far as maybe. The safe option though is thin linen trousers – save the shorts for a day at the beach.”
    For those determined to indulge, cycling shorts like Mr Bradshaw’s would still be seen as unacceptable in most offices – along with hotpants, denim and boardshorts. But even with tailored shorts the dilemma continues – wear socks and shoes and risk being mistaken for Just William? Or sandals and risk widespread revulsion unless you’ve spent a fortune on pedicures?
    Some tailors already make bespoke shorts for businessmen. Steven Hitchcock, of the Savile Row Tailor, said: “We generally tend to make them in linen. I have had a couple of people who said that they want them for the City, but they are mainly for people who are in hotter climates.”
    They are not yet a common sight in Britain’s business world, but even in the smart world of the City, the fashion choice is not banned. Shorts are not mentioned in the Bank of England’s dress code, which states that people need to be “neat and businesslike”.
    And a Pricewaterhouse Coopers spokesman said it did not have a “no shorts” policy but added: “We do not expect to see droves of staff arriving in shorts, but if someone came to work in a short suit that was appropriate for big clients and the office then it would not be a problem.”
    So don’t write off the rise of the trouser hemline yet. Last month, when train drivers in Stockholm were told they could not wear shorts because the operator Arriva’s dress code only permitted trousers or skirts, around a dozen male drivers turned up in skirts.
     
  2. elwood

    elwood Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    229
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Location:
    south east england
    

    Hmmm ... Photos didn't copy over - you'll have to Google Ben Bradshaw MP
     
  3. bunty

    bunty Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    373
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    
    Great photo, apparently Adidas made bowling shoes in the 60s, maybe that's what the lad is wearing.* Not relevant at all, but made me smile - [​IMG] Another medal, Muttley? :D *EDIT No it isn't, they haven't got a heel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  4. cerneabbas

    cerneabbas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,702
    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    bunty.Great picture...you say not relevant but the sports bag proves that Mods new about Adidas at least .Is wearing medals that you are not entitled to an offence ?,i think that you are allowed to wear your relatives medals not sure but i bet there are rules about it.
     
  5. cerneabbas

    cerneabbas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,702
    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    elwood.Interesting article just shows that we have got our fingers on the pulse on here.i have two questions,what sort of bloke turns up to work wearing cycling shorts ? ( except Bradley Wiggins ) and who would vote for that bloke ?.
     
  6. Clouseau

    Clouseau Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,342
    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Location:
    Paris
    MoM. Great pic of the US paratroopers. "Mille chemises" sounds familiar. i think my older brother had shirts of that brand in the seventies. i even think they had a shop in Paris, but it disappeared. there is today a website with that name but it has no relation.

    Mr Knightley. Very difficult to date this picture. On the Weston website where they used this photo as a model for a drawing, they say that Minets wore their emblematic mocassin since 1962. But it is true that the haircuts look more mid-sixties. I would say this picture was shot between 1962 and 1966. So 1963 is possible as Mr Chenoune seems to be an authority in the field of history of fashion.

    And that was an interesting Link, Mr Knightley. The influence on French style from the "Incroyables" (eccentric Dandys) and the "Merveilleuses" (with their semi transparent dresses) has been very important, at the end of the Revolution. Stanley Kubrick seemed to use an English "Dickensian" version of "Incroyable" style for Alex costume in the Chelsea Drugstore (by the way the inside of this location is very similar to the Inside of the Drugstores of the Champs elysees and Boulevard Saint Germain in the seventies ) scene of Clockwork orange, where Alex pulls two girls. "Incroyables" always carried sticks, for style, and as weapons.

    Maybe this will bring memories to the originals from London :
    casualcoblog.blogspot.jp/2010/01/at-chelsea-drugstore.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
  7. buttons

    buttons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    330
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Adidas made all kinds of sports shoes in the 60s but I don't know what they are.
    Not really my thing so I asked a couple of Adidas officionardos and they didn't know.
    So I had a hunt around and they're not Italias or ROMs (both available in '60). Look a bit like the Adidas Perfekt but the soles are too thin. Must be a very specific shoe for something requiring a very thin sole (i.e. low impact, something like tight-rope walking!)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    http://www.styleforum.net/content/type/61/id/886691/width/350/he

    (the b/w pic is the yanks picking up a few medals at the 1960 Olympics in Rome.ight/700
    The advert if from 1968.

    Anyway, the make's fairly irrelevant but there was a desire by some to wear expensive sports shoes (like what Dopeman was saying earlier).

    More importantly, what kudos did such a choice have by '67, '68, '69?
    How cool was it to wear exclusive sports shoes by that time (if at all)?
    Were green flash and the likes a cheap shoe you didn't mind going on the beach in or kicking a ball around, rether than messing up your shiny leather?
    Were the older lads wearing them as a fashion item? Or were they too cheap and not grown up enough?
     
  8. buttons

    buttons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    330
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    oops, made a mess of that.
    You get my point though!

    [​IMG]
     
  9. yankmod

    yankmod Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    765
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Anyone else know about Mods wearing Italian Bowling shoes?Am I wrong about this(I've seen pics of Keith Moon wearing them mid 60's)
     
  10. cerneabbas

    cerneabbas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,702
    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    I was talking to the bloke i work with yesterday about white plimsolls,he is 60 now and from London ( Fulham),he said that him and his mates wore Dunlop plimsolls mid to late 60s they were influenced by the tv show " I Spy".He has told me before that they wanted an American look and would save up and buy American button downs instead of Ben Shermans,he had a yellow harrington.We also talked about boat/deck shoes,he always wears them in the hot weather and says that they should not be worn with socks,and that linen shirts should not be tucked into trousers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  11. Gsvs5

    Gsvs5 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    752
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    I've given this a lot of thought over the past few days Buttons and it brought up a lot of things to mind about how I feel and just how clothes/fashion / uniforms play a part in our lives and mold our attitudes.Being a Northener for all intents ( N of the Watford Gap ),from as far back as my memory goes,we always called ourselves Mods.It didn't matter if we had cropped hair ,flared cords or Tonik strides,we always used the term Mods.Not that it happened,but if anyone ever asked me to this day,if I had to say what I was,I would still claim to be Mod.I can't explain it.
    I don't necessarily dress or look like any pre conceived idea of Mod,and apart from interaction in this Forum,I have no connection with anyone or anything related to Mod today.What I do have is my own sense of style and very strong opinions about it.From the width of of a turn up to the length of the hair over my ears,1/2 an inch has never meant so much to a man ( or woman !)
    It is something I have carried with me for life.I remember seeing a chat show back in the late 60's where someone like Parkinson or Cliff Mitchelmore had a cross section of British youth on ,being questioned about why they chose a particular look etc.I distinctly recall a Skinhead saying how he was a Skinhead and would always be that for life.Well ,we all felt like him and had his commitment and naivety at certain points in our lives.
    I have been thinking on the period of change and acceptance of new things,new looks and the end of the '70's.You have mentioned before of the attraction of a "Hard-case" element who would attach itself to a group for whatever reason,who would be tolerated and maybe even understood by the few who they were personally known to.These lads usually lacked or cared about style,taste or subtlety .Great to have in your corner at the bar ,but scary to be around at times when their unpredictable side came to the fore.Were these the blokes who championed the "Boot Boys?"
    As we moved into the '70's I recall seeing lads who had previously been smart,well turned out respectfully dressed mates turn into Frankenstein incarnations of a thrift store junkie.
    Harrington's, Trevira parallels,platforms etc. A visual bloody nightmare.
    The previous few years left little room for personal expression,individual flair.The rules were very well defined and enforced.Your mates let you know if you looked a cunt.
    Once those boundaries were removed,all hell broke lose.It was too much for some to take in .It was a new style that had to be be embraced in it's entirety.No room for the lilly livered to stick their toe in the water.Half arsed attempts looked exactly that - and you were no one ,going nowhere.If the previous three years had taught you anything it was that you had the balls to carry off a "Look". That is where "Mod' comes back into play.You understood the "whole" picture,subtleties,subliminal interaction of the parts.Without the confines of Skin/Suede and to some extent Smooth,many got lost on the road and gave up, and were the ones whose Wives now make their clothing decisions today.It's so much easier that way isn't it?
    Fast Fwd to Aug 1980.I was walking up Wembley Way with a spare ticket to unload for the Roxy Music Gig.The sun was shining on a perfect Summer day.I had Ox Blood Weejuns,no socks,white Poplin frog-mouth trousers and an Ivory Lacoste.Betrayed only by the requisite grease in my Ferryesque quiff,it was pretty much a classic 60's Mod look give or take an Alligator or a Laurel wreath.I looked like a fucking advert for Daz.
    A familiar Tout gave me an insultingly low ball offer for my spare,to which I unapologetic ally shared my thoughts with him.
    He sneered......eyed me up and down......and said "Flash Cunt"

    What a compliment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  12. Ivyskin89

    Ivyskin89 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    197
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    There is no shirt that I can find that has the combination of the fallowing; full box pleat with loop, v taper with tails, TRUE 4 finger collar with 3 buttons, low set second button, overlapping seams, gussets, and made from 100% vintage cotton, or Italian, or Japanese cotton, and made in USA. The 1965 collar is slightly shorter and shaped slightly different. Main consensus was everyone liked the 69/70 collar more. I hope to some day be having them produced in England, but for now they are made in Boston. I'm going to scout some factories in other parts of Massachusetts to get better production rates.
    First run will be just three different sizes of the blue vintage 60's gingham. This gingham has a green line selvedge that will be shown on the gussets and on the seams at the inside front of the shirt.
    I also plain on doing sta-prest, although I will not settle for anything other than 50/50 poly cotton twill, which is what they used in the 60's. Unfortunately the only place so far that I have found online that will make it, has a purchase minimum of 5000 meters. Since there will only be a limited run of these trousers made and I don't even have the money for 5000 meters of material, it's a pain in the ass. Fortunately I have some vintage 50/50 that I will probably be able to get a few pairs of pants out of.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  13. Gsvs5

    Gsvs5 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    752
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Thanks flyfronted. You can see where the money was then.
    More of a shoe shop than what it ended up as.It's funny ,but I can't ever get my head around Timberland and B.D.baggies as desirable,when there are far better out there ( then and now ).
    I can't help thinking that they (we) fell into the the trap that just like Soul, if it's rare it's got to be good?

    I miss Richmond.




    I wish I , I wish I was in Richmond
    I do, I would I
    I wish I, I wish I was back home

    I'm waitin' here in New York City
    the rain is falling
    there's no one who cares
    there's no one loves me here

    the women, they may look very pretty
    and some they know it
    but some look good
    they show a leg and smile

    but they all look like the flowers
    in someone else's garden
    I'll not act on love
    for anyone but you


    RIP Ronnie Lane
     
  14. Ivyskin89

    Ivyskin89 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    197
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Yes, this is definitely from when the ties started getting a bit wider. Although in movies I've watched from that period, I've seen skinny ties/ lapels worn with huge collars.

    Right now I am charging $165 retail for these. I don't want to, and I am still barley making a profit. I hope that in the future when I am producing them on a more regular basis and the business is in motion, I will be able to charge between $90 to $125. I am using some of the best materials I can get and pulling out all the stops.
     
  15. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,614
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Your Last Battlefield
    

    I know, hence my comment about being away for ten days. :)


    Nope, never. Apart from Billy.
     
  16. Darksideoftheforce

    Darksideoftheforce Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    

    Honestly, I don't see the "second age of nudity" ever changing, atleast not any time soon and I'll be the first to bend the rules of appearance by wearing my house clothes when making a quick errand to the corner store, whereas people a long time ago would have probably gotten dressed. What I find interesting is, that in the 19th century and even old pictures from the 1920s 30s and 40s men always wore hats it was considered part of a suit back then I believe, now, not so much and you'd probably be considered retro and archaic if you wore a pin stripe suit with a fedora. The "naked head" has been pretty much the norm for decades now, and I think it will be the same for the general lack of standards when it comes to clothes in public. The oversized shorts, the saggy pants the ridiculously oversized t shirts are hear to stay.

    As for the article, I don't really see a decline in standards in the manner of fashion post French Revolution. The fashion did change and wigs and silk stocking were gone, but men in the 1800s on would still be considered way overdressed by today's standards. The suits that we wear today began to develop in its recognizable form in the 19th century, cuts may have changed depending on fashion trends, but the overall appearance of suits have changed very little since the Victorian era and pretty much worn every day by the upper classes, the middle class and the lower middle class.
     
  17. Gsvs5

    Gsvs5 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    752
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    O.K Charge less,be happy,lose money and keep everyone happy.

    Not wishing to be an arsehole Ivy, and I admire your style ,but never,never undersell yourself.If you make the best,charge for it.


    Is it just me or is it a generational thing,but I wouldn't give you tuppence for anything with Poly blend today?
     
  18. buttons

    buttons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    330
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    To me it was always a bit more clean cut; you’re a skinhead … or you aren’t. Now that doesn’t leave a lot of slack, but maybe it shouldn’t.
    If you were a skinhead of a mod or anything really that had a lasting positive impression, then that’s a good thing. If for the next 20 years you always had neat hair and polished shoes, well ironed trousers, not worn too long, then you took something from your skinhead experience for your own pleasure and satisfaction.
    One of the key factors for me about being a skinhead was the look. There’s a degree of attitude, a love of certain music, a taste in many things (like cars, scooters, décor, dancing) but the fundamental underlying component for me was always the look. If you don’t look like a skinhead, then how could you claim you are one? You could be a big fan of Stax, SX200s and hair that’s cut every week, but if you wear really long jeans over running shoes with a Superdry T-shirt and a week’s stubble, then whilst you share some tastes with some of the skinheads, that doesn’t mean you’re a skinhead.
    And if you dress like your average Joe, but once a month put on a button down, turn your jeans up shorter and put your brogues on to go down the local reggae club … does that make you a skinhead?
    A mod lad I knew a while back had drifted out of it for ages and I saw him with a Mohican (because David Beckham grew one). I said “I thought you were a mod”. He said “I am, I just fancied a Mohican”. Really?
    If the ethos has stayed with you from a younger experience, then whilst that may be a very good thing, is it anything more than that?
    I don’t think there’s any shame in being an ex-skinhead. And there’s certainly no shame in being cool as fuck, with some old skinhead influences in your approach to style.
     
  19. buttons

    buttons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    330
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    

    If you want your shirts a particular way, Ivy then make them exactly how you want with no compromise. However, if you want to sell lots to make money, you need to offer something that the millions of other button downs don't. You'll never beat the mass market boys on price but if you have a certain style otherwise not available that people want, then charge accordingly. If you have a superior quality that others can't offer then people will pay for it. If its just another shirt on a very long list, its gonna be tough. Good luck though.

    And as for my old friend polyester - he has his place in the world!
    Sta press wouldn't be the same without it and some shirts look better for it too.
    I'd wear late 60's Levi sta press over anything Brooks Brothers make nowadays. And whilst poly-blending isn't the only difference, its a noticeable one.

    Be a snob with your threads, but only where it counts.
     
  20. elwood

    elwood Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    229
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Location:
    south east england
    Adidas made all kinds of sports shoes in the 60s but I don't know what they are.
    Not really my thing so I asked a couple of Adidas officionardos and they didn't know.
    So I had a hunt around and they're not Italias or ROMs (both available in '60). Look a bit like the Adidas Perfekt but the soles are too thin. Must be a very specific shoe for something requiring a very thin sole (i.e. low impact, something like tight-rope walking!)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    More great detective work, Buttons.

    Those white Adidas in the top photo are very similar to my early Reebok. I like your comment about the thin soles; ( tight-rope walking the last thing I'd do). Compared to the air-filled soles around more recently, they were virtually non- existent then. I think that's because they were basically the same as running shoes with the spikes removed.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by